Mailbag: What Atheists Believe
Subject: What Do You Believe In?
I came upon your site while doing some research for a debate class, and I have spent hours on it since then. I have tried to read as much as I can about your beliefs, but I still have a few questions. Most of what I read was evidence refuting religion in general, and the existence of a God. I might just be missing something, but I haven’t been able to find out what atheists do believe. I understand that they believe in the existence of obvious things (trees, rocks, etc), but that they do not believe in a God of any sort. Many Christians who wrote to you asked how you could believe in nothing. You adamantly insisted that atheism does not mean that you believe in nothing. What do you believe in?
I believe (in) lots of things, same as everyone else. What people need to understand is that none of them follow from atheism. When you know that someone is an atheist, the only thing that you conclude about them is that they lack any belief in the existence of any gods.
Asking an atheist "well, what do you believe in" doesn't make any more sense than asking the average person "well, what do you believe in." It's simply too open-ended. The average person could spend days discussing the things he or she believes. Without context or a narrow topic, it's simply not a question that can be reasonably answered.
What thought gets you out of bed in the morning? What keeps you around on this earth? I am still young, and I haven’t experienced many horrible things, but just watching the news at night is enough to discourage me. Living in a world full of strife and unhappiness seems purposeless. Why go on living? What belief keeps you going?
I enjoy life. What else does one need? Yes, there is quite a lot of strife and violence in the world, but there is also quite a lot of love and beauty. If you focus only on the strife and violence then of course the world will appear to be a depressing and terrible place. One should, however, try to focus upon the love and beauty as much as possible; there will be times when that seems incredibly difficult, but they are the things that make life worth living.
I have found the answer to my questions in my faith. It keeps me going every day.
Many of the people who cause the strife and violence we see on the news would say that they are also kept going through their faith. That's a serious problem with faith: once you adopt the idea that "faith" is a valid reason for believing something, you also give up any means for disputing any other belief based upon faith, even a belief you find abhorrent.
If someone says "It is part of my faith that black people are inferior to whites," what can you say? Sure, one could provide logical arguments and evidence demonstrating that this isn't true, but that would be missing the point. The belief is based upon faith, not logic and evidence. Their faith is as strong as others' faith. One can't dispute the idea of basing such a belief on faith without also calling into question the beliefs others base upon faith.
Sure, one group's beliefs might be nicer than the example I just cited, but there is no way to argue that "faith" is only permitted with "nice" things and never with "bad" things.
The thought that this life is short and that one day I will meet my lord is incredibly energizing to me.
This is a common sentiment expressed by many Christians, but I have always found it odd - especially when it appears right after I've been informed that without such a belief, life must be too depressing to be worth living. If being with God is so wonderful, why would someone stick around here any longer than is necessary? It would seem to me that being stuck on a depressing Earth when I know that something so much better is waiting would make it even more difficult to go on living.
Personally, I value this life for what it is, regardless of whether any afterlife or gods exist. The existence of an afterlife would not improve the value of this life, no more than the existence of breakfast tomorrow improves the value of dinner tonight.
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Comments
Kati, as Austin said, the main thing we atheists share is that we do not believe in god. As to what gets atheists out of the bed each morning, it is the same thing(s) that gets everyone else out of bed in the morning.
As for me, I work, have hobbies, some of which I am expanding. I do volunteer work with some area schools which I find very gratifying. I have a wonderful (non-religious but not an atheist) ladyfriend with whom I espend a lot of time with. I do not need any belief in god to do these things. God and religion are totally absent from my life as they have been for many years. To me, religion is fiction and a waste of time and has no meaning to me whatsoever. None of my daily activities including my hobbies and volunteer work has anything to do with god or religion. Does a belief (or non-belief) in god have anything to do with auto insurance rates (my work), square dancing (a hobby of mine) or playing Scrabble (a hobby of mine and my volunteer work in schools)?
How did I know that was going to turn into an “If I didn’t have faith, I’d kill myself!” statement.
Not to come off as insensitive, Kati, but if you need faith to keep on living, you need to ask yourself what you think the purpose of life is. I’d be happy to talk with you about my own personal experiences and what few “beliefs” (in your connotation) I feel it is reasonable to hold.
bachalon@gmail.com
Kati,
Albert10110 on youtube has an excellent video on this subject. If you’re reading this, I strongly suggest you take a look
Sorry, I pushed enter too soon - here’s the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss3ZUKo28lo
I find it interesting that the discussion goes from trying to understand your perspective to expressing the writer’s own perspective:
“I have found the answer to my questions in my faith. It keeps me going every day.”
On the one hand, I can understand how a person might say, “Well, I look at it like this, how is your own view different than mine?” And maybe that’s what’s intended. But after spending “hours” reading your site info, I can hardly believe this writer thinks you aren’t familiar with the concept of faith and what Xians claim it means to them/does for them. I may be assuming too much, but this seems like a testimony when I consider the context.
What else is ironic to me is that what the writer considers negative aspects of life—what he sees on the news (which is the rare occurrence, otherwise, it wouldn’t be noteworthy)—is a reason for _not_ getting up in the a.m. For many people, the challenge of improving the world around them for the better is what makes their lives worth living. I do a regular street cleanup. If people weren’t out littering, what would be the purpose of a street cleanup? Combating that negative aspect of the world—that people litter the environment—gives me something to work for, to get up for, a challenge to rise to and to meet. I also donate blood every 8 weeks. If people weren’t in need of blood—and I can’t think of any “positive” reason a person would need a transfusion—what would be my “reason,” my “purpose” for driving to the donation center and spending an hour and half, and letting someone poke me with a very large needle? I volunteer to help with an educational program about atheism on my local public access TV, and help to produce a newsletter for the same group. I blog to combat ignorance and further public education about atheism.
I guess my point is that when I see an area where I perceive people need or could use a hand—I don’t see that as a reason to NOT motivate. I see it as a reason TO MOTIVATE. It’s a choice not a necessary conclusion. People can be despondent in the face of need; or they can be productive and helpful. I choose to be productive and helpful. Does any person really need a god to explain to them when someone else is in need of help?
Interestingly, the writer states, “The thought that this life is short and that one day I will meet my lord is incredibly energizing to me.”
To me, the thought that life is short and there won’t be a “later” to rely upon is a very “energizing” reality to confront. If I don’t get it done in this life, there’s no “next life” to take care of it. It’s now or never—how much more motivation could a person possibly require than _that_?
Still, the real point is that each individual atheist believes whatever he likes. Probably the best way to address this writer’s question is like this:
What you’re actually asking/saying is this: “I know you don’t care for apples—but I can’t figure out what you DO like.”
Just because I don’t like apples doesn’t mean I don’t like anything. BUT the fact that I don’t like apples has no bearing on whatever else I do like. It’s a nonfactor in the question of “What DO you like?”
An atheist can believe all sorts of wonderful humanistic things, or he can be a complete degenerate. The only thing we know about him is that he doesn’t believe in god. Beyond that, I guarantee he _does_ believe in some things in his personal life—BUT, what those things are is an individual choice not dictated by “atheism.” Just as the person who doesn’t like apples sure does like some things—but his stance on apples doesn’t inform us of that. Still, how odd would it be to say, “Well, if you don’t like apples—I guess you don’t like anything.” And I know the writer isn’t saying that—but that is why the idea of “Do atheists believe in nothing?” being nonsensical. It’s like saying, “Do people who don’t like apples also like nothing?” What would even make a person make such an assumption? It’s not reasonable, logical, rational—it’s just nonsense.
I don’t mean to hammer this poor person asking a question, but I had another thought with regard to the “Do you like apples?” analogy. The idea of saying, “Wow, I really can’t fathom what motivates a person who doesn’t believe in god…?” would be like saying, “Man, if you don’t like apples…why even bother eating?”
Now, if I, for example, truly was a freak about apples, it certainly could make sense for them to say, “If I couldn’t have apples, all the joy of eating would be gone from my life.” But it would only be considered sensible in jest to claim that if _someone else_ couldn’t have apples, that I couldn’t imagine why _they_ would bother even eating any longer (or to suggest _they_ couldn’t have a reason to eat or like something else as much as I might like apples).
It’s this very glaring, and common, issue with Xians that they are hard pressed to grasp “other people” and that other people might view the world in a different light or through a very different framework. It makes me sad, because it’s very limiting to not be able to see the world from someone else’s point of view—if only as an exercise in _understanding_ others.
I’m very glad this person is writing to ask—but there’s something sad about the reality that something so simple should be so elusive due to such harsh indoctrination (that makes it impossible to grasp how someone else might see something differently than we do).
Like most readers of this site, I’m also atheist. Whenever I look at or read about various religions, they all strike me with how obviously man-made they are. Still, I’m awestruck by the world around me. I’m surrounded by things that have a “Wow!” factor, such as watching our little dog get all excited when we come home, watching our one-year-old grandson learn everything around him, or reading about the latest discoveries in palentology, biology, and the other sciences.
A lot of my relatives would call all of this “God’s work” and think all of this proves there’s a god. No, it doesn’t but knowing the real real science behind things in nature and humanity I’m still awe-struck. I’m no “professional scientist,” but the more I learned of the sciences, the more I saw gods - all of them - were really increasingly pathetic, useless things, conjured out of human ignorance, keeping mankind stupid.
Well as Gautama Buddha said,” Believe nothing, O monks, merely because you have been told it…or because it is traditional or because you yourselves have imagined it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings–that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” (Seldes 1967)
I think that about sums it up.
Kati,
You have a lord? As in someone who rules over you? What is the appeal of that? i have a boss and a girlfriend, that’s more than enough trouble, thank you very much.
Neat that Xians love their feudalistic symbolism so much. King of Kings, prince of darkness, lord and savior. Their marriage vows are a carbon copy and paste of the olde oath of fealty. Ever wonder why that is? i think it is because the people who wrote the bible and those who rewrote it later, wanted to reinforce the idea of that rulers deserve to be in charge. That a king was appointed by god, like George Bush was.
Responding just to the quote about bad news in time Kati will realise the news media thrives on bad news. The very size of the news media means bad news items can go around the world instantly. At the moment the world’s media is screaming about an economic recession in the US affecting the rest of the world. Whenever does the media give us screaming headlines that the US economy is doing very well along with the rest of the world.
The world isn’t full of strife. Most of the world is peaceful. There is less world poverty and more freedom now than there was 50 years ago.
I was told at Catholic schools that man can’t prosper by himself. If he didn’t turn to God the future would be bleak. In spite of occasional setbacks man is doing fairly well. Freedom and private enterprise have brought a standard of living undreamed of a couple of centuries ago. Look at the diseases conquered.
The thing is to look at the world with optimism. I suspect most atheists do. They accept they are here even if they don’t know why. They enjoy life, nature and family. The only difference between them and Christians is that they don’t believe in supernatural myths because of the lack of evidence supporting them.
Kati writes:
“What keeps you around on this earth?”
Gravity.