Conservative evangelical Christians don't like Islam - and I mean, they really don't like Islam. The Christian Broadcasting Network once featured Craig Winn, a businessman who claimed to have gotten "intelligence briefings" from Mossaad and the FBI as part of this studies of Islam. I guess going to college and focusing on scholarly resources would have been too obvious.
Craig Winn was profiled on CBN, but the original page is gone now. The only records I can find of his profile are copies of the quote which I saved below:
Craig says the biggest deception is that Islam is a peaceful religion. He came to that conclusion after studying the Quran and Muhammad's own words. "His own words condemn him," Craig says. "September 11 happened because Muhammad is a terrorist." ... Craig says today's terrorists are less violent than Muhammad and that the record shows "Muhammad's life mirrored Hitler's."
He says Muhammad practiced genocide, was a polygamist, a rapist, a pedophile, a liar - and said it was good to lie. When the Jews disputed Muhammed's version of the Scriptures and condemned them, Muhammed declared war on them, decapitated them, and sold the women into slavery. His vision of heaven was one big orgy, with martyrs being rewarded with from two to seventy-two virgins depending on how they got there.
Obviously Islam is much better than Judaism and Christianity. Neither of those religions have any history of its adherents or leaders doing anything violent like genocide, practicing polygamy, raping, lying, etc. Christianity and Judaism are, then, far better than Islam, right? Right?
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Your qualification says your pretty educated…but I feel you are twisting the history of islam and using extremely provocative and inappropriate language to convey your thoughts…by degarding prophet Mohammad you won’t succeed in convincing moslems out of islam but you’ll hurt their pride and instigate them to react agressivly…that’s what they are often blamed for but i suppose any one with some self respect would respond in that way when they are attacked…you should use your knowledge in a more dignified and intellectual way that could atleast become useful to solve the conflict among various religions rather than aggravating it…peace
Please support your accusation.
If Muslims act violently or aggressively because they don’t like things I say, then they validate criticism of Islam as violent.
No, a person with self-respect doesn’t react violently in such situations — only people lacking in self-respect do it because they fear that the criticisms may be true. Moreover, civilized and mature adults avoid acting like that because it’s immoral.
Please support your insinuation that I have aggravated anything.
Notice that I am not acting aggressively or violently in reaction to your accusations and insinuations. Why not? Because I have self-respect and don’t for a minute fear that what you have said is true.
Austin,
You said
To that I say:
Find me a single passage in the Holy Bible advocating conversions at the point of the sword, like Muhammad did. Just one passage. Notice that I said “forced conversions”.
Secondly, you comitt the fallacy of false comparation. The fact that many “Christians” did many horrible things, doesn’t mean Christianity is just as bad as Islam. Remember that Islam is what Muhammad says it is. If Muhammad says “Go and kill infidels UNLESS they convert to Islam”, then that is true Islam.
In order for CHristianity to be “as bad as Islam”, you would have to find the Founder of Christianity to do the same things that Muhammad did.
Can you?
I don’t need to because your “fallacy” of “false comparison” is nothing of the sort (it certainly doesn’t appear in any logic texts I’ve read and I suspect you only just made it up in order to make your post look better). Christianity is what Christians do, not what Christians pretend is some sort of “pure” religion unadulterated by what Christians do. Islam is what Muslims do, not what Musllims pretend is some sort of “pure” religion unadulterated by what Muslims do.
Christianity is better, worse, or the same as Islam on the basis of what Christians and Muslims actually do with their religion, not on the basis of what Christians and Muslims would like their religions to be in some ideal — but non-existent — realm. Christianity and Islam are, like all religions, human-made systems and this means that they must be judged according to what the human adherents do.
If we tried to judge them solely on the basis of what their alleged founders said and ignored what the actual adherents do, then our evaluations will be meaningless on any practical level. Saying that Christianity is “good” regardless of what Christians do renders the judgment of “good” meaningless; saying that Islam is “bad” regardless of what Muslims do renders the judgment of “bad” meaningless. It would be like saying that a car is “good” on the basis of original design plans and despite the fact that it falls to pieces before we get it out of the driveway. No sensible person would adopt or accept such a standard.
We certainly don’t do this about any other belief system — we don’t, for example, judge communism solely on the basis or the writings of Marx and without looking at the actions of actual communists or communist governments. We don’t judge fascism solely on the basis of the writings of a few early fascist theorists and without looking at the actions of actual fascist followers and governments. So why would anyone try to insist on it here?
It’s called “special pleading” — take note, Mats, because that’s a genuine logical fallacy. Here it involves introducing special, favorable standards for the benefit of one system in order to make it look better, even though the same standards aren’t apply fairly or equally across the board. It’s an unprincipled tactic employed by unprincipled “critics” who don’t like the look of the consequences of being fair in their evaluations.
It sounds like Craig Winn is just full of “ideas”.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Winn
Hey…I don’t know what made you think that I won’t reply…and I must tell you am not looking for any uncooperative discussion, I was shocked to read your opinion about Islam…September 11 happened because of political reasons that are beyond the imagination of the common man the politics behind that tragic event is to make you hate Muslims so that the consequent wars could be justified if you get deeper into the American political agendas you may have a different opinion…by twisting the history of Islam I mean…you are comparing Prophet Mohammad to Hitler…I absolutely disagree with you on this…Hitler’s ideologies were completely different from Prophet Mohammad’s…Hitler was not talking about god at all.
You have given a very aggressive form to your thoughts as Muhammad practiced genocide, was a polygamist, a rapist, a pedophile, a liar – and said it was good to lie. When the Jews disputed Muhammed’s version of the Scriptures and condemned them, Muhammed declared war on them, decapitated them, and sold the women into slavery. His vision of heaven was one big orgy, with martyrs being rewarded with from two to seventy-two virgins depending on how they got there.
He practiced Genocide do you have any facts to support this comment, he was a Polygamist, I understand it comes across as immoral to you considering your western background and I personally wouldn’t practice something like that, but world has different, exotic, beautiful people who have their own cultures that may not appeal to you or me.
Prophet Mohammad’s several marriages were not merely a means of fulfilling his carnal desires as many people allege. When he was only 25 years of age he married a widow who had children from her previous marriage. In his youth, he could have had many beautiful women, but he married a widow 15 years his senior. He lived with her for 25 years and she bore all the children of prophet except one. When he was 50 years of age, Khadija his first wife passed away. Those 25 years of his marriage was a monogamous one. The polygamous marriage was only after he attained the age of 50.
The women he married after the death of his first wife were widows Prophet had to transform the evils of the society by practice. The people shunned marrying widows especially if they already had children from their previous husbands. He married a widow and thereby changed the wrong ideology of the people. Likewise, he reformed the society that abused the orphans by caring for the orphans of the women he married. If he followed his carnal desires, he would have married all virgins.
You have used very strong disturbing words such as he was a rapist a pedophile. Why would you say something like that without any justification?
He was a liar- and said it was good to lie. When the Jews disputed Muhammed’s version of the Scriptures and condemned them, Muhammed declared war on them, decapitated them, and sold the women into slavery. You are very confident about what you say here but you haven’t given any reference to support your statement, where in Quran this has been mentioned.
His vision of heaven was one big orgy, with martyrs being rewarded with from two to seventy-two virgins depending on how they got there. How do you conclude something like this, again you have given no reference to establish this statement.
These bold remarks made me feel that you are being disrespectful towards a good man who was spreading the word of god and people who believe in him will certainly be offended and react aggressively, on that your reply is…
“If Muslims act violently or aggressively because they don’t like things I say, then they validate criticism of Islam as violent.”
I don’t know if any Muslim responded aggressively or peacefully to things you say but I feel that your thoughts have a potential to affect any person in a very negative way, whether they choose to get affected by your thoughts is relative to their tolerance and patience.
My statement that – you should use your knowledge in a more dignified and intellectual way that could atleast become useful to solve the conflict among various religions rather than aggravating it.
Is based on your obvious hatred towards Islam. I have respectable knowledge about all the religions and the core of these religions is One God, they may have diverse ways to find him based on their socio-cultural backgrounds. Loathing and degrading each other is not the answer to bring unity and peace that all the religions are teaching.
The world that we live in today has to be free of these primitive prejudices. Religion per se has been a huge hindrance for times immortal for us to see the real truth, I believe if we find the hidden codes in all the holy scriptures that have come in different times, beginning from Vedas to Torah to Bible and finally Quran with a uncontaminated heart and peaceful mind we’ll me able to decode the mysterious riddle we are living in.
Peace
Since when does “looking for a cooperative discussion” involve making allegations you don’t even explain, much less support?
No, I’m not comparing Mohammad to Hitler. I’m quoting someone who does.
Oh, and by the way, you are wrong about Hitler: he did talk a lot about God and how he was doing God’s will.
If gabrielle has such a fuss he should be complaining to Craig Winn, the person making all these claims about Islam in the first place. Austin is obviously not taking Craig’s claims on Islam seriously and is simply suggesting that the claims could just as well be “applied” to Judaism and Christianity.
you’re coined the moment you believe intelligence stories(mostly bias for politcal reasons)
Dear Sir and readers
Please stop argumenting.
We all must work together for a better world,for others and ourselves.
many persons are poor, hungry, are suffering.
With the help of God ,we can help bringing peace in our heart first,then in our home,in our city ,village ang throughout the world.
Let us try, God will help you and us AMEEN
That is true; at the same time…
That is not true. We must all work together precisely because our problems are human-made and, therefore, must be solved by humans. No gods will do it for us and no gods will come around to make things all better for us. There is only us and therefore we have to rely on ourselves. If we don’t do it, no one will.
“Austin is obviously not taking Craig’s claims on Islam seriously and is simply suggesting that the claims could just as well be “applied” to Judaism and Christianity”
This is of course Austin’s big mistake!
Compare this letter about ISLAM or DEATH :
I read Le Roy Barnett’s letter (“Muslims, speak up,” June 26) about Muslims’ opinion on Abdul Rahman’s [the Afghani man who had to leave Afghanistan in fear for his life] conversion to Christianity.
Islam is not only a religion, it is a complete way of life. Islam guides Muslims from birth to grave. The Quran and prophet Muhammad’s words and practical application of Quran in life cannot be changed.
Islam is a guide for humanity, for all times, until the day of judgment. It is forbidden in Islam to convert to any other religion. The penalty is death. There is no disagreement about it.
Islam is being embraced by people of other faiths all the time. They should know they can embrace Islam, but cannot get out. This rule is not made by Muslims; it is the supreme law of God.
Please do not ask us Muslims to pick some rules and disregard other rules. Muslims are supposed to embrace Islam in its totality.
Nazra Quraishi
East Lansing
Craig is right, islam is not religion but factry of terror, no educated person in his or her right mind would ever embrace islam, now the women in the free world converting to islam only confirm what muhamed said about them being stupid. IMHO muhamed hated woman as his mother must have been sharmuta, (whore) no person who respects his own mother would disrespect all the other women.
That’s a pretty serious claim. Can you support it?
Why don’t Muslims and Christians both just ignore Craig Winn? After all, he “was” Jewish, claims that he converted to Christianity, and is now an “expert” on Islam! How ridiculous!
Anyone who thinks he’s really a Christian has not read enough of his writings.
http://yadayahweh.com/
In here he says that the name Jesus is meaningless, that Lord means Satan, that the King James Bible was printed from trash, and other lies.
This guy is a phony. Don’t believe anything he says.
Austin Cline as all atheists have been deceived into thinking Pagan Roman Catholicism is Christianity, this is due to their lack of research.
So they take the crimes of Roman Catholicism, Orthodoxism and the rest of the Babylonian Mystery Religions and lay their crimes onto the Christians, while in reality the Christians are the ones that have suffered the most under the Roman Catholics, the Orthodox and the Protestants, being murdered by these groups. Besides being murdered by atheists, muhammadans, buddhists, hindus and other pagan religions.
Austin Cline you need to start researching before you come with your claims, as of know you come of as a very uneducated man, and indeed in this subject you truly are.
When you start your research do compare what the Bible teaches compared to what these religions that are pagan that you think are Christian teach, they are opposites, it would be like you being a God believing atheist, there’s no such thing….
Hey Austin!
Hats off to you for the very interesting and informative information of Islam and its Prophet. I am also an athiest. I joyfully enjoyed all that is being written by all. I am increasingly convinced that religious belief is rather hard wired in the brain for most of the people. The religion of the parents decides what is followedby the child. If a switch is made , say, Islam and Christianity, the kids of different religious parentage will take up the religion of their switched parents with perfect ease and seriousnes. Thus, it is not the the religion that is the deciding factor, it is decided basically by the hard-wired need in the brain! As this is the real truth, 5 to 10% of the atheist are really the lucky ones due to the missing circuitry in their DNA make up!
So, atheist, you think Islam is the same as Christianity or Judaism. So, where are all the 21st century terrorists acting in the name of Christianity? Where are the Christian or Jewish suicide bombers? You haven’t really researched this subject at all, have you? I’m a former Muslim and I know from experience that there’s a world of difference between Islam and any other religion. Islam is bent on world domination by any means necessary. There is no democracy or moderation in Islam. The joke is on you if the Muslims get into positions of power. As an atheist unbeliever, you would be among the first to be executed.
Who said “same”? It might be possible to take you seriously if you didn’t make up things to put in others’ mouths.
Christian militias. Abortion doctor assassins.
Take a look at the terrorist bombings used during the founding of Israel.
Given that I was able to answer questions you couldn’t, I’m not the one here lacking knowledge.
Right… because you’ve also been a member of every other religion too?
Unlike Christianity, which commands adherents to convert the world… oops.
Unlike Christianity, which preaches republicanism and democratic voting throughout the New Testament… oops.
As opposed to living under the rule of adherents of Dominion Theology, who want to impose the Old Testament on society and thereby kill gays, feminists, and atheists… oops.
You haven’t really researched this subject at all, have you?