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Austin Cline

Lance Armstrong and God

By August 8, 2005

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One of the most recognizable athletes in the world today is Lance Armstrong. Winner of an unprecedented (and unlikely to be matched) seven Tour de France races and survivor of cancer, Lance Armstrong is a powerful example of what a human being can do when they dedicate themselves to a cause. Moreover, he is an example that it can all be done without religion and without gods.

Zach Wallens explains:

In his book It’s Not About the Bike: My Journey Back to Life, Armstrong wrote about the night before undergoing brain surgery: “I asked myself what I believed. I had never prayed a lot. I hoped hard, I wished hard, but I didn’t pray. I had developed a certain distrust of organized religion growing up, but I felt I had the capacity to be a spiritual person, and to hold some fervent beliefs. Quite simply, I believed I had a responsibility to be a good person, and that meant fair, honest, hardworking, and honorable.”

In an interview with TIME, Armstrong said: “I don’t have anything against organized religion per se. We all need something in our lives. I personally just have not accepted that belief. But I’m one of the few.”
[Humanist Network News]

So, Lance Armstrong doesn’t think very much about organized religion, but what about gods? Many theists are as dissatisfied with traditional religions as are atheists so the above quotes don't make him an atheist...

According to an article in the UK Times Online, he believes it is possible to be a good person while not believing in God. “I think we all have obligations to be good, honest, hard-working, caring and compassionate,” he said.

ET Magazine quoted Armstrong saying “If there was a god, I’d still have both nuts.”

It’s common for religious theists to insist that adherence to a religious ideology and/or faith in some god is helpful in achieving more in life. I’m sure that this make sense from their perspective, but it’s undeniable that neither religious belief nor theism are necessary to achieving more in life.

People are capable of doing far more than they usually end up doing and it’s at least as likely that religion is holding them back as it is that it helps propel them forward. That people fail to recognize this may be due to their failure to even consider a life without religion and theism.

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Comments
July 15, 2008 at 3:44 pm
(1) george believer says:

have fun in hell!!

May 10, 2011 at 1:10 pm
(2) Steve says:

Hell and heaven are imaginary places reserved only to those who believe in them. Lance doesn’t believe in hell, so he can’t go there. George, you have much better chances of making it to hell. Enjoy the rest of your life with the fear of something that doesn’t exist.

August 7, 2011 at 11:36 pm
(3) Nathan says:

That is the most rediculous thing i have ever heard. we have to believe in something in order for it to be there? so its there for me to go to but not for you?

November 1, 2011 at 7:16 pm
(4) MJ says:

George, that attitude doesn’t help.

July 31, 2008 at 2:54 pm
(5) Christian Who Believes in God says:

I will pray for Lance Armstrong. He name is a household word. You can say Livestrong and some people may not know what you are talking about but say Lance Armstrong and they connect the two. Lance, you are doing great work in the fight against cancer and I appreciate all you are doing. I pray that you come to know Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour.

July 31, 2008 at 4:11 pm
(6) crystal says:

Hell will NOT be a fun place for anyone who goes there and any indication that it might be fun is shunning the truth. There will be darkness, gnashing of teeth and lonliness. Check scripture. May God soften Lance’s heart so he will accept him as his savior and be saved from such a scary place.

August 28, 2008 at 5:23 pm
(7) ChristianLipps says:

I pray all you christians would stop wasting 1/3 of your energy praying and going to church, maybe YOU could win the Tour de France with the spare time. If god wanted Lance to accept him, don’t you think he would have ‘softened his heart’ already?

January 21, 2009 at 8:05 pm
(8) BearClaw says:

The first three comments are why people in the reality-based community think theists are mindless idiots.

January 23, 2009 at 10:37 am
(9) new songer says:

yes, one can achieve earthly greatness without God or religion. but that’s not even worth comparing to what you can achieve with God in your heart. A child sitting next to me at church with Jesus in his heart already achive more than Lance in his present age.

March 4, 2009 at 11:26 am
(10) SuperKev says:

I think Lance is an inspiration and I am a Christian.
The 1st comment makes me sad because comments (& attitudes) like that help me to understand more of why many people do not accept Christianity.
“Have fun in hell”???
These are not the words Jesus would’ve spouted.
But, also, I will say that just cuz Lance doesn’t “have both nuts” doesn’t refute a loving God who allows situations to bring us closer to Him.
I know it’s hard to understand but I’ve only got so many characters I can type here.
:(

April 27, 2009 at 1:02 pm
(11) Dan says:

The VOID that atheists feel inside themselves can only be filled by God. It actually takes greater faith not to believe than to believe.

Ask God to prove Himself real to you – what can it hurt?

April 27, 2009 at 2:58 pm
(12) Austin Cline says:

The VOID that atheists feel inside themselves can only be filled by God.

Sorry, but I don’t feel any void.

It’s actually more than a little bit arrogant to simply assume that I must have one instead of asking me first. In this way you’re just treating me more as an object, filling a preconceived role, than an individual human being.

It actually takes greater faith not to believe than to believe.

Really? Prove it.

Ask God to prove Himself real to you – what can it hurt?

Been there, done that. Once again, you might want to consider the value of engaging people as individuals and asking them questions instead of assuming that you already know all about people you don’t know and have never met. Drop the script, please, because it just makes you and all the other Christians following it look absurd.

June 5, 2011 at 11:22 pm
(13) heather says:

you are awesome, austin.

April 27, 2009 at 1:07 pm
(14) Cross says:

I applaud the last comment. So many people are turned off by Christians and our comments. WWJD is a very powerful statement and it is how we should live our lives daily, taking the church outside the walls. We have some youth at church who like Lance. It is good to have earthly role models however, Christ is the only role model that will matter in the end of our days. Earthly accomplishments and treasures are exactly that, earthly. Coffins do not come with a u-haul attachement hitch. My denomination, and thought process is not the only way to God but his son, Jesus Christ is! Let’s stand up for the truth, because it will set you free. Let’s think about the questions you will be asked when you come face to face with the anointed one. I don’t think it will be earthly treasures. Last comment, “Going to church makes you a Christian as much as standing in your garage make you a car” To God be the Glory!

May 1, 2009 at 2:42 pm
(15) Dan says:

What could it hurt to believe that you can fly by flapping your arms and jumping off a tall building? What would it hurt to have a senator vote based on what a bronze age novel tells him? What could go wrong if a president believed that a character in that novel wants him to do this or that? What would it hurt to tell a child their feelings are sinful, rather than natural? Or that there is a guy who lives by the north pole who brings them toys on Christmas?

May 1, 2009 at 2:42 pm
(16) Doug Shaver says:

I am constantly amazed at how much Christians think they know, without ever talking to me, about what I feel or how I think.

May 1, 2009 at 2:44 pm
(17) Todd says:

ET Magazine quoted Armstrong saying “If there was a god, I’d still be banging Sheryl Crow.”

May 1, 2009 at 3:34 pm
(18) Paul Buchman says:

Dan wrote:
“The VOID that atheists feel inside themselves can only be filled by God.”

I’m sorry, Dan, but it will never work for me. You see, I have a Darwin-shaped hole in my brain.

May 1, 2009 at 3:35 pm
(19) Barbara_K says:

Dan said

“The VOID that atheists feel inside themselves can only be filled by God.”

It’s kind of funny to read that Dan, since any sort of void I once felt disappeared as I let go of my childish belief in a god. You might find some despondent atheists, but it’s been my experience that they would be the exception rather than the norm. Accepting reality was a very liberating experience.

“It actually takes greater faith not to believe than to believe.”

Do you really not understand how nonsensical that statement is? Or is it the fact that it is complete nonsense what you find so comforting about it – I would argue that it requires no small amount of faith to make such a contradictory statement and believe that it makes any sense. I suggest you consult a dictionary to refresh yourself on the meaning of the word faith. If there were any evidence of a god, it would not require faith to believe in one. It requires no faith at all for me to say that I don’t believe in the existence of unicorns or leprechauns – there’s no evidence to support it. If unicorns and leprechauns suddenly appear and start cavorting around then I will accept their existence, but that acceptance will still not require faith.

“Ask God to prove Himself real to you – what can it hurt?”

Once more with the assumptions – I was raised in a church and prayed many times, as is the case with a lot of atheists. Are you just a troll or are you actually interested in considering other people’s perspectives? You comment quite often, yet you never really seem to have anything new to say.

May 1, 2009 at 3:50 pm
(20) AtheistGeophysicistBob says:

Austin (10) I am with you 100%. I have no concept of the void which Dan mentioned.

May 1, 2009 at 4:56 pm
(21) Chuck says:

I seems that one possibility is being left out. Perhaps The God is weeding out those with too little sense to recognize a sham when they see one rather than wishing to keep those that believe. Heaven may be just a holding pen for the useless ones.

May 1, 2009 at 5:14 pm
(22) Boydicus says:

Chuck (17) Well said!
Remember that BlackAdder episode where he is made Archbishop of Canterbury, and explains that “Heaven is for those people who like the sorts of things that go on in Heaven… like talking to God & watering plants…”

May 1, 2009 at 6:20 pm
(23) Joan says:

Would somebody please tell me why christians are always saying they wish someone would accept Jesus Christ into their life as their personal savior? What’s the point? What’s the payoff? Save you from what?

May 1, 2009 at 8:31 pm
(24) C Woods says:

Count me among the atheists with no empty hole that needs to be filled. I live a full, productive, happy life —a much better life than I imagined as a child when being warned of the terrible things that would happen to me if I didn’t swallow the Christian silliness I was fed by my parents and the church.

It amazes me when someone says something like “What can it hurt?” —as if, a non–believer could suddenly decide to believe in a god. If a believer thinks I can do that, then why doesn’t the religious person think s/he can suddenly become atheists by simply changing their minds? It took me about 6 years to evolve from accepting religion blindly (before I was 12) until, at 18, I decided that there probably was no god. It was a slow process that included much soul searching, much reading, lots of Bible study, and hundreds of questions no one could answer.

What’s more, after careful reading of the Bible (several times cover-to-cover) i don’t want to believe in the cruel, vindictive, sexist and murderous god depicted there. And if Jesus believed and worshipped that god, I don’t want to believe in him either.

George Believer is typical of the religious person who has nothing of substance to say, so he resorts to damning someone who disagrees with him to hell. Ho, hum. I’ve heard it before. Hell doesn’t scare me, because I don’t believe it exists either.

May 2, 2009 at 3:45 am
(25) Zack says:

I have a Twinkie-shaped hole in me that can only be filled with golden sponge cake and creamy filling.

May 2, 2009 at 8:41 pm
(26) Larry says:

In my youthful daze I used to be a fundamentalist Christian; however, I began my decade-long deconversion when I sat down and actually read The Bible. King James Version, of course. I hadn’t gotten past the Pentateuch before the doubts started to creep in, accompanied with horror at what God had commanded his fav people to do: mass slaughter of the heathen and the enslavement of the survivors–when there were any.

Religion is wish fulfillment on a grand scale. The fundamentalist strain is a mental pathology that glorifies ignorance and the herd mentality, and which allows the zombies who follow it to justify their crimes against humanity.

I wish everyone (particularly Christians) would actually read, from cover to cover, this book they allegedly revere. Perhaps they’d see how ridiculous and barbaric much of it is. And how ridiculous and barbaric they are.

I am proud to be an atheist.

January 18, 2011 at 10:34 am
(27) Marvin says:

Larry(22), don’t forget that many, if not most, of those fundamentalists have read the bible cover to cover, probably multiple times. I can’t say what’s going on in the minds of others, but somehow I managed convince myself these things should not be questioned. I remember being terribly offended when a colleague used the word genocide while discussing Saul’s punishment. It was not until a doctrine I’d been taught to consider idolitry was expoused from the pulpit that I allowed myself to consider that there was anything beyond misinterpretation going on (an oversimplification, to be sure, but it pretty much explains my determination to believe what my mind knew couldn’t be so). As others here have said, it was a slow and painful process, but in the end, entirely liberating. When I realize that most Americans, even many of the well informed, continue to “believe,” I can’t help wondering how I was so fortunate.

May 2, 2009 at 8:49 pm
(28) Tom Edgar says:

The only void I envisage is the one displayed by those “Christian” posters, and it is situated between the ears.

May 3, 2009 at 3:30 am
(29) GalapagosPete says:

“WWJD is a very powerful statement and it is how we should live our lives daily…”

I have two standards that are much better, both with the initials WWCD.

In my daily life, I ask, “What would Caine do?”, Caine being Kwai Chang Caine from Kung Fu. Caine was a calm guy, compassionate, intelligent, humble, but there was the Kung Fu for people who just wouldn’t leave the innocent alone, and he demonstrated these traits over and over through several seasons.

And before someone says, “But Caine is a fictional character,” I have this response: we imbue our fictional heroes with the qualities we admire most. While it may not be possible to achieve these qualities in real life, it gives us something to aspire to. Better a fictional hero then some athlete.

My other WWCD is, “What would Carl do?” “Carl”, of course, being Carl Sagan. I try to channel Carl when I’m posting, especially since I have such a smart-arse nature. He was good at keeping his cool with people who were saying things that were fundamentally ignorant, pointing out where they were factually wrong and why science holds a particular position with resorting to insult.

“…Christ is the only role model that will matter in the end of our days.”

This would be the smug, sarcastic, holier-then-thou Jesus we see in the Bible, uh, where, exactly? Because that’s what I see from most self-identified Christians who post.

May 3, 2009 at 3:36 am
(30) GalapagosPete says:

Comments 1, 3, 6 and 8 are perfect examples of what I see a great deal of from self-professed Christians. Smugly confident of their own salvation while happily assuring us of our eternal damnation.

Charming.

May 3, 2009 at 3:39 am
(31) GalapagosPete says:

Dang it! The HTML didn’t close. I hate when that happens! I only wanted the two quotes from Cross to be italic.

Hope it works this time.

May 3, 2009 at 3:40 am
(32) GalapagosPete says:

Nope.

May 4, 2009 at 4:36 pm
(33) Marc says:

Hey Cross: Your acronym holds no more power than WWSCD (what would santa claus do)! Any power you attribute is innate, therefore, any acronym could work if you need such things. If you need a catchy, inspirational motivator, the adage “do unto others as you would have them do unto you” is much more insightful no matter who first said it.

May 4, 2009 at 4:37 pm
(34) Marc says:

P.S. – WWLD is not bad either, I have used it many times in the last decade of a century ride! :-)

July 8, 2009 at 12:48 pm
(35) Lindsey says:

I agree with comment #7. Jesus is not pleased when his followers say things like “have fun in hell!” Jesus was about loving unconditionally. He was about caring and loving sinners. He was about the people like Lance who choose to reject Him.

I wish Lance the best of luck in everything he does. I personally am a follower of Christ and I really wish that the other christians on here would really think about what Jesus would say to Lance in this situation.

July 8, 2009 at 2:24 pm
(36) Matthew Chase says:

Lance is a huge inspiration for me. Atheist? Agnostic? Not really my business, but then again, I tend toward the Libertarian…

Religiously, I am an Orthodox Jew. Kosher, Sabbath, yarmulke and all. We are a non-proselytizing sort, though, by nature and Jewish law, and merely ask of our non-Jewish neighbors to hold by the Seven Noachide Laws. Can’t say though whether Lance does, but again, not my business.

Lance appears in all respects a good, moral, hard-working, generous person. Does he fear God? Perhaps not, but then again it’s not for me to look into another’s heart but his deeds. And Lance’s deeds shout loudly that he is a very good person.

(Parenthetically, were he Jewish and still professing to agnosticism or atheism, my response would probably be, ‘oy, what a shame, maybe he’ll eventually find a nice Jewish girl…’ But he ain’t, so leave ‘im be.)

Here’s me raising my [kosher] wineglass to toast Lance (currently 2nd place at 2/10 of a second back) and team Astana, to victory in France for #8!!!

July 12, 2009 at 7:39 pm
(37) Minigooch says:

Lance you have it together. You do things that are good because it is the right thing to do not because you think you are going to get to heaven because of your good deeds. Jesus is proud of you. You are doing his work. There are many religious people that don’t have half the goodness that you have. You are a huge inspiration for many people and I am one of them. You have won already in France no matter what place you come in. You will always have no breaking point on your values of life and a driven spirit that transends all sports.

July 17, 2009 at 6:24 am
(38) hudo says:

Lance is the god if i was to have one, at least he is real and a pretty good bloke, just need to see him ride his trek across some water and i’m sold on the god deal.
As for a void , well there is none in my life unlike many god botheres out there in fantacy land, just check out some of the dissgracefull things some of you do to kids with your sick sexual void just as an example.
So come on you religo’s just drop it and you will see what i see, life like it should be ,
unshackeled , happy and totaly at peace with mankind .

July 28, 2009 at 9:04 pm
(39) Gentleman Runner says:

Listen Guys;

I mean some of the Atheist’s. Being almost a radical agnostic. I find it hard to believe logically that isn’t any god. Now it burns me to hear some of you ignorant (shockingly stupid actually) fall back to Darwinism as default to support your arguments. Evolution is the actual proof that there is god. I have to disagree that they were Apes are gorillas. They were some species of primate that went a different route then apes and gorillas. For the Most part apes and gorillas were docile those primitive creatures that man descended from were not. Darwinism /Evolution needs to refined more research about origins needs to be discovered.
AND A HOLLER OUT TO ALL YOU STAUNCH ATHEISTS NOT ALL F-ING CHTRISTIANS BELIEVE IN ADAM AND EVE. AND THIS GOES OUT TO BIBLE THUMPERS AND ATHEIST THAT ADAM AND EVE WAS A MORONIC METAPHOR DESCRIBE OUR DEVELOPMENT AND SOCIETY. DESCRIBED TO THE ILLITERATE MASSES OF ANCIENT ANTIQUITY.

AND BY THE WAY AUSTIN WHEN DAN SAID, “IT TAKES A GREATER FAITH NOT TO BELIEVE THEN TO BELIEVE. ” HE WAS ACTUALLY PAYING YOU A COMPLIMENT. I lost the reason I posted. Oh, yeah, Lance Sucks.

July 28, 2009 at 10:09 pm
(40) Austin Cline says:

I find it hard to believe logically that isn’t any god.

Is it hard to believe logically that there isn’t any Zeus?

Now it burns me to hear some of you ignorant (shockingly stupid actually) fall back to Darwinism as default to support your arguments.

Like who?

Evolution is the actual proof that there is god.

Fine, demonstrate how.

For the Most part apes and gorillas were docile those primitive  creatures

Really? Prove it.

AND BY THE WAY AUSTIN WHEN DAN SAID, “IT TAKES A GREATER FAITH NOT TO BELIEVE THEN TO BELIEVE. ” HE WAS ACTUALLY PAYING YOU A COMPLIMENT.

Since when are lies a compliment?

I lost the reason I posted.

I don’t see any “reason” in the above.

August 12, 2009 at 1:57 pm
(41) Jones says:

I am a common girl as the matter of God is the common topic (need not take much intelligence) I would like to participate in this.

August 12, 2009 at 3:24 pm
(42) Jones says:

“It actually takes greater faith to not believe in God rather than to believe in God”
I agree on this point.Visible things definitely manifest the Invisible creator.e.g If I see this website I’ll know that there must be at lesat a single person behind this website,for it didn’t come out of nothing.It is so simple.
But if you want to believe there is no one behind this website, it’s so difficult to believe coz it’s a lie.
If such simple things cannot possibly exist on their own how can this vast creation with all it’s careful activities go on without any mastermind behind it?

August 12, 2009 at 4:01 pm
(43) Jones says:

I would also like to ask, you who say there is no God because you have not seen him or think coz he is not proved, did you try to search him, did you search him in your place in your state or province, in your region, in your country, in your continent, in your neighbouring continents, in the whole Earth, Oh, didn’t you? But, God is still bigger than Earth, then you should search Him in other planets,in the entire Solar system… try going everywhere search it n then conclude there is no God coz you think God is Concrete.Will your life be enough to do all this?What if you finally discover God at the end of your life? No use even merely discovering God, coz unless you are related to Him ,will this discovery be of any use?

August 12, 2009 at 4:20 pm
(44) Austin Cline says:

“It actually takes greater faith to not believe in God rather than to believe in God” I agree on this point.

Then I expect you can show how it is true.

Visible things definitely manifest the Invisible creator.

I’m sure you can demonstrate how.

If such simple things cannot possibly exist on their own how can this vast creation with all it’s careful activities go on without any mastermind behind it?

Because we can describe how natural objects arise without references to any creators. What’s more, the very distinction between natural and artificial objects rests on our ability to recognize when things have been designed with a purpose and when they have not.

I would also like to ask, you who say there is no God because you have not seen him or think coz he is not proved,

Wouldn’t it make more sense to ask why people don’t believe instead of assuming you already know?

did you try to search him, did you search him

Is there someplace you think people should look?

What if you finally discover God at the end of your life?

What if you discover Odin at the end of your life?

August 14, 2009 at 2:46 pm
(45) Doug Shaver says:

did you try to search him, did you search him in your place in your state or province, in your region, in your country, in your continent, in your neighbouring continents, in the whole Earth

I’ve looked everywhere that believers have told me to look.

August 14, 2009 at 6:42 pm
(46) Drew says:

When we were infants in cribs we were told “the gods are in the room”. When we outgrew the crib, we were told they were in the house. When we explored the house we were told they were outside. When we ventured outdoors, we were told they lived on the mountain tops, like Mount Olympus. When, as adolescents, we climbed the mountain, we were assured the gods lived in the clouds, and under the earth. When, in the 1960s, humans stepped on the moon, there was nowhere left for the old gods to retreat to. We were assured that the gods lived some other magical place that we couldn’t see. My parents were alive then. They witnessed first hand the transition of Christian belief from cloud-god to “cant-see-him” god, just as surely as I witnessed the evolution from “dinosaurs-are-a-hoax” in my childhood to “dinosaurs-walked-with-humans” of today.

It’s all a pile of crap.

August 14, 2009 at 9:52 pm
(47) Tom Edgar says:

More faith to be an atheist?

Faith is a belief you hold when you have neither reason nor proof for holding that belief.

I fail to see how that pertains to atheists. Paramount in their thinking is the desire to see verifiable, replicable proof, before believing.
Oh yes we can believe in what we don’t see, touch and smell. Tectonic plates, virus, but then there are tests to verify these.

Now give me the same verifiable, replicable evidence for a God and the tests (annotated,) and I will leave atheistic beliefs behind.

August 15, 2009 at 4:57 am
(48) Jolly Jack says:

Void? What void?
Just the opposite!
I remember my epiphany as being similar to placing the last piece in a very complicated jigsaw puzzle.
It was a fairly sudden enlightenment, and I have never looked back since.
Actually, I was a little angry with myself, for having taken so long in my life to see religion for what it is, and to make a firm stand.
No, Dan, it wasn’t a void, which is emptiness. It was a magical moment of sudden fulfillment, which I will never forget.
It was as though I had been shackled for so long, then suddenly freed.
Sounds poetic, I know, but that’s how I felt at the time.

August 15, 2009 at 6:44 am
(49) Jae Baeli says:

“If such simple things cannot possibly exist on their own how can this vast creation with all it’s careful activities go on without any mastermind behind it?”

In a word, EVOLUTION.

You reveal your ignorance by the statements you make. First, study the facts of evolution, then make your assessment. IF you have only information skewed toward belief, how can you possibly know how you’ll feel about the other information? Are you, perhaps, AFRAID to know?

Kelli Jae Baeli
author of
“Supernatural Hypocrisy: The Cognitive Dissonance of a God Cosmology”

August 15, 2009 at 11:09 am
(50) Zayla says:

As an avid cyclists and triathlete I’ve followed Lance Armstrong’s career with great interest. I’ve been impressed with his strength, as most are.

Just imagine how much of this drivel he has to listen to in person?

August 15, 2009 at 8:11 pm
(51) Tom Edgar says:

As an ex competitive sportsman and cyclist I admire Armstrong’s accomplishments. I fail to see how this should lead his being an expert in (a)theism or any other philosophical areas.
I suppose it is only an extension of the American obsession with “Celebrities” and expecting some Thespian or Sportsman to be able to give profound and intellectual comments on Philosophy, Politics or Psychology.

If I want race tactics I’ll consult Lance, certainly not Austin. Now if it comes to intellectual matters. I’ll take Austin any day.
It doesn’t mean Lance Nelson or any other person cannot be in a position to have serious and incisive opinions, but I would not expect a Trotter to win a steeplechase.

August 16, 2009 at 4:34 am
(52) Som Sharma says:

Even if there be a void in my head, I would not allow it to be filled with trash

August 16, 2009 at 6:24 pm
(53) Ike says:

Just want to leave this quote! my favorite
“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours” – Stephen Roberts

If you believe in Jesus christ, then do some research on the egyptian god Horus who lived before Jesus was born. Some of you may find the similarities shocking! Oh and if you do some more research, there are hundreds of other gods with the same similarities as christ (and lived before him). Gracias!

August 18, 2009 at 12:11 pm
(54) Jones says:

You need so much knowlwdge to believe that there is no God as Jae pointed “it only shows my ignorance” and she can actually prove there is no God by the word Evolution. Evolution is again a theory and there are many theories concerning the creation. All these theories with many flaws in them take our “belief”.You never saw them happening, because you felt that it was correct in the limitations of your reasons, you will ignore all the flaws they have and simply will believe that Evolution must be true.But FYI you must know that Darwin who himself founded this theory of Evolution, the great writer of “origin of Species” confessed that what he tried to prove was just a foolishness of a Young blood… (similar to that)
To believe all these it takes so much of your faith out of your reasons,as nothing is actually proved.

August 18, 2009 at 12:45 pm
(55) jones says:

@Austin,
“Visible things manifest the invisible creator”
I already demonstrated this.Anyway, let me take some examples from creation,When u look at diff plants diff varieties with their beauty and their significance,or animals of so many types, u can see how their creator is so creative. When u look at the arrangement of cells in their body and the various metabollic processes, life processes u find how perfect he is, when u see how seasons follow their order perfectly which results in various aspects of life u find how carefully he has planned the creation…This creation proves His magnificane,His brilliance,if u just look at man with all his abilities to do anything except for overcoming death, u can at least imagine how great n perfect must be man’s creator…anyway, you may conclude in a diff way…
It takes billions n billions of brilliant minds to understand His creation…
If this great God had nothing to do with me I wouldn’t have cared to believe in Him n worship Him. I would definitely appreciate Him for His capacities (as I would appreciate lance Armstrong for his capacities) and will live my own way of life.But it matters if this great God has something to do with u…n if u just ignore Him.

August 18, 2009 at 1:10 pm
(56) Jones says:

Dog’s life cannot understand human life,similarly human life cannot understand God’s life.Austin, if u want to know God u need to allow life of God to enter into your spirit. Bible says in Prov 20;27 the spirit of man is the lamp of Jehovah.The spirit in man searches the things of God.He that is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.John 3;6.

August 18, 2009 at 1:15 pm
(57) Austin Cline says:

You need so much knowlwdge to believe that there is no God

No, just a grasp of reality.

Evolution is again a theory

It’s also fact. Do you comprehend how “fact” and “theory” are used in science?

and there are many theories concerning the creation.

There is only one scientific theory.

All these theories with many flaws in them

Science isn’t perfect, but its track record is better than any of the alternatives.

But FYI you must know that Darwin who himself founded this theory of Evolution, the great writer of “origin of Species” confessed that what he tried to prove was just a foolishness of a Young blood…

Feel free to provide evidence if you have it…

“Visible things manifest the invisible creator” I already demonstrated this.

Where?

Anyway, let me take some examples from creation,When u look at diff plants diff varieties with their beauty and their significance,or animals of so many types, u can see how their creator is so creative.

Feel free to show how beauty is evidence of a creator.

When u look at the arrangement of cells in their body and the various metabollic processes, life processes u find how perfect he is,

Feel free to show how the arrangement of cells and processes is evidence of a “perfect” creator.

I’m not sure if you realize this or not, but simply asserting “X proves Y” doesn’t work unless you can demonstrate a series of logical and evidentiary connections between X and Y.

If this great God had nothing to do with me I wouldn’t have cared to believe in Him n worship Him.

So basically you’re “argument” here is that your belief in this god is evidence that this god exists?

August 18, 2009 at 1:42 pm
(58) Austin Cline says:

Dog’s life cannot understand human life,similarly human life cannot understand God’s life.

We also cannot understand Darth Vader’s life — because he doesn’t exist. If you can demonstrate that we can’t understand your god because it’s too complicated rather than because it’s fictional, feel free to do so.

Austin, if u want to know God u need to allow life of God to enter into your spirit.

Of course, there is nothing stopping your god from making itself evident to me if it wants to. Ergo, if it hasn’t, it must not want to and must want me to disbelieve.

Who are you to question God?

August 19, 2009 at 12:55 pm
(59) Ike says:

Jones,
what about all the natural disasters like hurricanes, tornados, earthquakes, and tsunamis that have killed so many people. Was that your God? it seems to me that creatonists always want to give credit to God everytime something looks beautiful but they never mention him when something horrible happens. It seems to me that you like to point out the hits (the good) but you dismiss all the misses (the very bad)
And it is the same when you are quoting the bible. lets say you invite me to see your “beautiful” garden and I say yes. When I get there you show me this beautiful rose and I am impressed, but beside it I notice a flower being eaten by insects and then I start looking around more and actually notice that the garden isnt really that beautiful after all. I ask you why are there so many dead flowers in the garden but your response is “oh disregard those flowers, but come look at these other 2 nice flowers.”

August 21, 2009 at 4:17 pm
(60) Doug Shaver says:

I’m sorry, Jones, but I just cannot take seriously anybody who, when writing, does not know the difference between a computer and a cell phone.

August 21, 2009 at 8:59 pm
(61) Todd says:

Why do the Jesus freaks think Bible quotes hold any weight here? You might as well quote Superman comics or fortune cookies.

August 22, 2009 at 11:02 pm
(62) God Isn't says:

I just had to respond to Matthew Chase’s comment because it’s the first time I’ve seen a jewish person say something like this…

(31) Matthew Chase says: “We are a non-proselytizing sort, though, by nature and Jewish law, and merely ask of our non-Jewish neighbors to hold by the Seven Noachide Laws.”

Really? You *merely* ask? As though the fact that you don’t threaten us if we don’t do so makes it reasonable? Why should anyone follow religious rules that mean nothing to them?

- – -
1. “Idolatry is forbidden. Man is commanded to believe in the One G-d alone and worship only Him.”

- Not only do I not believe in any god, I also do not worship anything. I’m not a slave.

2. “Incestuous and adulterous relations are forbidden. Human beings are not sexual objects, nor is pleasure the ultimate goal of life.”

- I don’t allow anyone else to define my goals in life. Pleasure *is* important to me.

3. “Murder is forbidden. The life of a human being, formed in G-d’s image, is sacred.”

- No one needs to believe in a god or that life is “sacred” to think it’s not okay to kill humans. I, however, include other animals, so I’m better than your god.

4. “Cursing the name of G-d is forbidden. Besides honoring and respecting G-d, we learn from this precept that our speech must be sanctified, as that is the distinctive sign which separated man from the animals.”

- *All* of this is meaningless to me. I don’t believe in any gods, and there’s no reason for me to respect fictional characters, so I’ll use any words I want, in any way I want. I also know that humans *are* animals, so I’m smarter than your god.

5. “Theft is forbidden. The world is not ours to do with as we please.”

- Again, religion is not required to know it’s not okay to take what doesn’t belong to me, including the land that others are living on.

6. “Eating the flesh of a living animal is forbidden. This teaches us to be sensitive to cruelty to animals. (This was commanded to Noah for the first time along with the permission of eating meat. The rest were already given to Adam in the Garden of Eden.)”

- This is really disgusting to me, being a vegetarian. Since I *would* consider it cruel for anyone to kill me to eat and/or wear parts of my body, I extend that same respect to all species, not just my own, making me better than your god, again.

7. “Mankind is commanded to establish courts of justice and a just social order to enforce the first six laws and enact any other useful laws or customs.”

- Since the religious rules don’t apply to those who don’t believe in your god, and the other rules don’t require religion, this is just as meaningless as the rest.
- – -

So, you may “merely ask,” but I will very definitely tell you to take your religious rules and… Well, I’ll leave the rest to your imagination.

September 3, 2009 at 8:38 pm
(63) Marc about BC and AB says:

I’m atheist and it was a long procedure that started with a doubt in my mind. Now I read a lot about the subject and about science too… But the reason I’m writing here is for a question; Do some of you find annoying the mention A.B. and B.C.? I find it is strange that we all use it, even science and institutions, yet Jesus never appears in history books!

September 3, 2009 at 9:01 pm
(64) Responding to (49) Jones says:

Evolution is a way to explain why there is living things on earth. The more it goes the more we have proof of evolution. Here is one of the latest;
They took lizards that eat 80% insect and 20% leafs. These lizards have short intestines, a little like carnivorous animals have. They put them on another island further, were that kind of lizard was not present at all. Then realized about 30 years after that the lizards are slowly turning into another specimen with longer intestines and a reversed diet of 80% leafs and 20% insects (which is very impressive in a short period of time like this). The reason for the trend is because the insects they could eat were a lot less present and they adapted easily with natural selection because were already capable of eating leafs… The lizards that add a little longer intestines were advantaged and so forth generation after generation. You dig a litle?

When I used to believe in god, even as a teenager, I knew the theory of evolution was true, yet I found other ways to convince people. I cannot Imagine a god suddenly creating an explosion and organic matter at the same time. I wonder actually how people that believe in god imagine the way it started on earth and in the universe. Sounds like a bad science fiction movie to me but maybe I’m generalizing a little…

September 14, 2009 at 12:24 am
(65) Jorge Perez says:

All you need to stop looking down at Lance for not looking up to your so called “God”. The man has a right to his own opinion and belief. On top of all of this I can almost guarantee he does more for the human race than any religion. How can any of you come out and insure everyone that if they don’t believe in your god they are headed towards eternal damnation, you can’t even tell me what is going to happen 10 minutes from now, yet you can tell me what’s going to happen once we die. It doesn’t make any sense.

October 9, 2009 at 12:59 pm
(66) Jones says:

@comments 55 and 56
So doug Shaver, do you take Todd seriously who doesn’t know the difference between fact and fiction?
don’t you guys know that comics are fiction and Jesus Christ was a man in the history whose works and words go together?

October 9, 2009 at 1:15 pm
(67) jones says:

@comment 59,
Then according to ur explanation with the passage of time the basic lizards (from whom the another species with long intestines developed)should not exist as they died and the new species have evolved n similarly these should vanish after a certain amount of time as another new species will evolve out of this.
Now you want to say man evolved from monkeys, but i wonder why still monkeys are existing beside humans though these monkeys have been trasformed to human beings long long years back and these human beings are more advanced rather are unique beings than all the other forms of life?

October 9, 2009 at 1:25 pm
(68) Jones says:

@comment 58
Do you mean A.D and B.c?
I too wonder when the whole world tries to prove there is no Jesus and when he is considered as just a fictional character by many people, why the basic timeline is divided based on Him?And the wonder is those who divided the time line based on Jesus as the centre were not even christians. There were many many great people in the universe but still Jesus was the one they needed to divide the time into A.D n B.C.

October 9, 2009 at 2:00 pm
(69) jones says:

@comment 54
Ike, when you are talking of God, it’s not that only God is the supernatural being, if so there won’t be any problem for everyone in the world to live happily.There is also evil power which Bible calls Lucifer or the Satan.I have to explain you or probably u might be knowing, how Lucifer wanted to rebel against God n have his own rule, so from that time onwards he has been trying to destroy God’s creation, so he polluted God’s new creation Adam and Eve,so the seed of sin has entered human beings and they were separated from God in their Spirit.Now God wants to gain the human race back to Him and Satan is trying to rebel against God in various ways but God is righteos and holy He won’t do anything against His character.
Man reaps what He sows,Satan has sown so much wickedness into man it is multiplying day by day in them.They will behave as they like waste all their wealth on their pleasures and when they become poor they blame God, they commit fornications n adulteries and when they get any babies with disabilities they blame God,they eat as they like and smoke and become alcoholic and when they get diseases they blame God for that. You might be knowing there are many genetic diseases,won’t they pass on to their children?
God being merciful wants to extend His salvation to all but they won’t accept that but they only want a solution to their problems and once it is solved again they will continue in their wicked pleasures.Why should you guys blame God for what you have sown? You don’t even realize what your mistakes are and simply ask for justification?
But God has not left human beings to their fate,everything takes time, His salvation to be executed also took time.God had sent many prophets, and rulers and He even gave His law, but what people will do is doubt and disbelieve and persecute those who came to extend His Salvation, Finally God Himself came in Human form so that people may understand Him in their own form but again they crucified Him, but those who have really accepted what He had done for them had always experienced the peace, that peace which the world doesn’t give and which surpasses all human understanding.

October 9, 2009 at 4:27 pm
(70) Jones to Austin says:

@comment 53
You know the difference between fact and fiction.Truth is always universal, Truth is for all, When Jesus said He is the Truth, It was an open statement for all. John 3;16 is a popular verse, …that whosoever believes into Him shall have eternal life. This Eternal life is for anyone who believes into Him. Unless He is Truth He cannot make sucha statement with confidence.And when a person says something His deeds also need to prove that statement which happened with Christ.Christ is not offering you a moral life, His life is more than moral life, His life crosses the standard of Morality, It is the divine life that He offers.
He did that by offering Himself as the sin offering on behalf of humanity and satisfying Go’s righteousness and by becoming the life-giving spirit enters into those who call upon Him as in every man there is a spirit which thirsts for God and He comes into this human spirit and makes the human spirit one with God. He enters the spirit of man and operates in humans gradually transforming them by spreading into soul and body.
What is preventing God from entering into you is your lack of cooperation with Him for the Bible says It is impossible to please God without faith. The object of Christian faith is Historical Jesus, believing His incarnation, His human living with it’s suffering, His crucifixion n death, His resurrection and ascension and his entering into those who believe into Him.

October 13, 2009 at 10:15 pm
(71) Ike says:

To Jones,
You say that Lucifer does all these evil things right? Don’t you think God would have known this before he created lucifer? Don’t you think God would have known that disasters would happen in the future? You will probably answer me with the fact that God gave us free will right? But even then, Where does this free will come from? The Bible?
Well this quote comes from the bible.

Isaiah 46:10 (God Talking) “I make known the end from the beginning from ancient times to what is still to come.”

According to you this is not true right?

October 16, 2009 at 12:53 pm
(72) Jones to Ike says:

He knows, and He knows the remedy too. Everything takes time that’s why He sent His son Jesus to abolish sin in flesh and He’ll rule eternally when he comes again. First time Christ came as Lamb now in His second coming He’ll come as lion, with His judgement.Now God’s foreknowledge is different from God’s will.In His foreknowledge He knows what will happen but in His will He doesn’t want the wicked things to happen. But In His omnipotence He can cure the things but He does it in a process, He follows the rules as He is Righteous, and that takes time to human comprehension.
To be simple it’s like, Father buys a bicycle for son, doesn’t he know that by riding it son will get hurt? Yet father allows the son to ride it and when he gets hurt he provides first- aid.
God bears human iniquities but He never leaves them hopeless or in despair, He provided His son to bear those iniquities and wash humans from their sins, that’s why son had to claim the Truth that in Him is eternal life, He is not hiding the remedy, if you believe into what He has already accomplished for you, you will be saved. He’ll enter into you,as
1st corinthians 15;45b says the last Adam became the life giving Spirit.He gives you life, you already have life in you but what is it he says, he became the life giving Spirit, It is the divine life that he gives you which will make you eligible for God’s Kingdom.All the prophesies concerning Jesus were fulfilled, His virgin birth, His human living, His sufferings, His crucifixion, death and Resurrection, only one more prophesying needs to be fulfilled,i.e His second coming, This time He is going to judge the world.Then He will establish His Kingdom, then your kind of dream world will be fulfilled in which there won’t be any sorrow or suffering.

October 16, 2009 at 4:14 pm
(73) Christian Scientist says:

just because Lance doesn’t give credit to God doesn’t mean God didn’t have anything to do with his success.

October 16, 2009 at 10:28 pm
(74) Ike says:

Jones,
Are you sure that God provides first-aid? There are so many people in this world that have fallen off the bike and have never recovered. Just think about amputees. If you say that God provides first-aid then why does he not cure amputees? at least for some people. Also, I dont think quoting the bible is such a good idea because the bible is not full of good things.

-exudus 20:13 thou shall not kill
versus samuel 6:19 and the people lamented because the lord had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.
thats just one of many examples about killing.

malachi 3:6 for I am the lord, i change not
versus exodus 32:14 and the lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people. ( in other words, he changed).

Isaiah 46:20 I make known the end from the beginning from ancient times to what is still to come
versus genesis 22:12 for now i know that thou fearest god seeing thou has not witheld thy son. (by saying now i know, it meant that he did not know the future.)

romans 15:33 The god of peace
versus exodus 15:13 the lord is a man of war

Luke 14:26 Hate your family

Full of contradictions and bad things.

ps. You never commented on Horus the Egyptian King (comment 48). What is your view on that story?

October 31, 2009 at 4:15 pm
(75) Jones to Ike says:

Ike,
When I referred to what you have quoted I can see you don’t know the context , when you quote a sentence out of context how odd it looks.
u quoted 1 Samuel,6;19 and do you know what happened there? The People of Beth-shemesh stole the Ark of Jehovah, which has certain rules to be followed, The Ark of Jehovah is holy, Only the Highpriest can touch it by following some ordinances that God gave.
In our terms let me illustrate, When u go to a Museum, u cannot touch the things as u like, there are certain instructions to be followed,but when u try to go against the rules u ‘ll be punished. It is not that rules were hidden from people, in the next verse i.e 1Samuel 6;20 Men of Bethshemesh i.e the men who were struck by Jehovah said, “Who can stand before Jehovah, this holy God?…”The men who stole the Ark themselves are confessing that He is a holy God and they know the result of doing against Him but still chose to do so…
Even we have the law that we should not Kill but when the judge punishes the culprit, do u say that the judge has killed or is unjust? Certainly the culprit’s family n relatives will lament for the loss of culprit.
What do u say about the soldiers who kill each other in the war are they all murderers?
I have checked out all the references that u gave with a very open mind n all were explainable and are vague out of context.
When we say God is just, Righteous, Kind, also Terrific, All-knowing… we are talking about Hs essence,but when He is talking to people he talks in human comprehension, in human emotions, in the limits of human language, with the figures of Speech in it. It is clearly written in Romans, ” The letter kills, but the Spirit Gives Life.
I would like to explain all the quotes that u referred to but no need if u are interested to know read with context u r intelligent enough to comprehend them,
But I would like to comment on Luke 14;26. The same Christ while on the cross gave the responsibility of His mother to his brother too.. what he meant by saying that is hating our self, selfishness…
when u r in the army u cannot think about your selfishness, Read how christ’s explains this verse in the lines following the verse also u should remember 4th commandment is to honor your Father and Mother that your days may be long… Even in Ephesians it is written to treat your mother and father with utmost respect…
Don’t act ignorant in undrstanding. don’t try to quote just to defend ur belief, What is any game without rules? What is free will if everything is good! Won’t we be just Robots if God created humans in a way they always obey Him without any choice? There won’t be any problem at all in the universe. When I said God provides First Aid, Yes, He provided Jesus, to die for the sins of the world and our That WHOEVER believes into Him shall not perish but shall have Everlasting life. John 3;16
Because God is Holy and Righteous not everyone is eligible to enter into His Kingdom and those who do against Him shall be punished, but because He is Kind, Loving and merciful He sent Jesus to die on our behalf so that we may simply enter into it by acknowledging what He has done and accomplished for you n me. We have free will to choose. If u allow Him to work in u He will do it, otherwise it’s your choice.

November 2, 2009 at 2:52 pm
(76) Ike says:

To Jones,

For many years I have tried to believe in something but the more research we do, the less and less i believe. I have read the bible, it took me about 1 year and a half or so, I cant really remember. But this friend of mine asked me if I was religious and I said I guess. He then handed me a bible and told me to read it and to tell him what I thought about the book. He did not tell me anything about his nonbelief so he was neutral. After reading it, I was shocked by the stories that I read. I couldn’t believe that people were reading this book in church. My point is, I know what these quotes are talking about and it is people like yourself and other believers that try to rephrase these words into nicer terms. Everytime I ask a believer about something, they say “oh god didn’t mean this when he said this” or “he meant to say this”. If he meant to say something else, why didnt he just say that. (and remember the bible are gods “exact” words.)I remember reading in the new testament i believe it is Timothy chapter 2 that God degrades women by telling them that the man is more powerful and that they are less worthy than men. It is just one example of all the sexist things that the bible says. Not to mention it is also against all the handicaps, the injured, the deformed and everyone that is not born right. Please take the time to read the whole book. If God is so powerful and all knowing, why did he create this world with so much suffering. If you blame this on the devil, then why doesn’t god just erase him. Isn’t he that powerful to do so? why put this hole in our heads to make people do bad things in this world? Isn’t he powerful enough to take away what you call sin? If god knew that there would be people that would not believe in him, why did he create them in the first place? Why use these people to greatly advance technology and help our environment to simply send them to hell when they die? Why would non-beleivers be punished just for taking the time of doing a little bit of research and finding out that God’s stories are Pagan and Egyptian stories that were written before the bible and then COPIED into the bible? I don’t think it is fair that most scientist, professors, intellectuals and so many other people that have donated and helped our world should go to hell simply because they did a little bit of research and they started thinking outside the box. Jones, like Richard Dawkins said, you are an atheist like us also because you do not believe in other religions right? you think that their stories are fake and never happened. Well we True atheists just go one more God further than you. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods in this world, you will understand why we dismiss your god.

December 30, 2009 at 9:10 am
(77) John Campbell says:

I’m rarely surprised at this point whenever there is someone who chimes in with hellfire and brimstone… even in the context of someone who is a humanitarian. I suppose the motive for the condemnation is that Armstrong’s and others’ selfless acts present a challenge to the necessity of religious doctrines, especially when they are open about their criticisms and disagreements with religion. Religious beliefs can’t stand to intellectual scrutiny so they must rely on fear and emotion. We really are stupid, frightened animals. Hopefully, that’s changing.

May 27, 2010 at 12:16 pm
(78) steve says:

Who give a damn “what Jesus thinks” about Lance Armstrong? All you God squad ever do is spout on about the fire and brimstone bollocks that youve been indoctrinated with since birth. Its tedious, silly and extremely childish, not to mention intellectually stunted.
Lance Armstrong is happy in himself, so whatever your silly God might think, those of us with half a brain really couldnt give a shit.

July 8, 2010 at 8:03 pm
(79) Mark says:

Good for him. He fought cancer and he STILL doesn’t need a religious crutch. I have so much more respect for this man now.

July 16, 2010 at 9:23 am
(80) Vic says:

“Dont through pearls to swine”

August 12, 2010 at 11:27 pm
(81) D / DM says:

@Austin Cline:

It is quite obvious that you DO feel a void, as do many atheists. If you didn’t, you could simply spend your days being happy and free without the constraints of a morality that was defined some 2000 years ago, but you don’t do so. Instead, you waste a whole lot of time trying to convince people who don’t think the way you do that they are stupid because they’re intolerant of people who don’t think the way they do.

This article is silly. It serves no purpose except to gratify confirmatory bias. The comments are even worse.

August 13, 2010 at 9:15 am
(82) Austin Cline says:

It is quite obvious that you DO feel a void, as do many atheists.

Since you don’t know me and have never met me, it’s interesting that you feel qualified to make such a pronouncement. I challenge you to support it and demonstrate that you aren’t simply being arrogant and presumptuous.

If you didn’t, you could simply spend your days being happy and free without the constraints of a morality that was defined some 2000 years ago, but you don’t do so.

First, your claim here seems to be that anyone who lives within the bounds of morality must necessarily “feel a void.” I don’t see the logical connection between the two. Care to elaborate?

Second, I do live without the constraints of an exclusively Christian morality.

Instead, you waste a whole lot of time trying to convince people who don’t think the way you do that they are stupid because they’re intolerant of people who don’t think the way they do.

No, actually, I don’t spend a lot of time trying to convince people who don’t think the way I do that they are stupid. Instead, I try to convince people to exercise more skepticism and critical thinking in their decision-making process. Insofar as people who disagree with me are stupid, they demonstrate that on their own when they choose to post here — for example, by implying that morality and meaning in life requires their religion.

This article is silly.

It’s silly to post the truth about someone? Curious. Why don’t you like truth?

May 8, 2011 at 6:02 pm
(83) Logical Atheist says:

Austin thank you for making these people use their brains. The universe is such a vast and interesting place does God take interest in just humans? What about the dinosaurs, animals, plants and aliens? Do they go to heaven also what makes our life more important than theirs?

August 17, 2010 at 7:17 pm
(84) D / DM says:

“Why don’t you like the truth?” is the final nail in the cop-out coffin. Sad that you had to resort to that even though I said virtually nothing of any consequence. I know a Christian you could debate with to no end, endlessly. He’s a friendless idiot.

August 17, 2010 at 7:33 pm
(85) D / DM says:

I do apologize for my tone, which I now realize was probably somewhat combative. I get that way sometimes. That you responded at all was odd to me; that you responded so quickly was even more so.

I believe you’re absolutely right in your assertion that theism is not a prerequisite to a fulfilling life. But if something DOES allow someone to feel fulfilled, why is their worldview wrong simply because it doesn’t agree with yours? Why do you assume that people are (or might be) held back by a theist belief structure?

And a final one: what do you mean when you use the word “religion?” It seems, in context, that atheism is not included within that spectrum (for you), but do you believe that atheism is not a religion or that it doesn’t have all the characteristics common to other religions?

August 17, 2010 at 8:55 pm
(86) Austin Cline says:

“Why don’t you like the truth?” is the final nail in the cop-out coffin.

How so? I wrote truthful statements and you call them “silly.” What other conclusion should I draw except that you don’t approve of some truth? The only question seems to me to be which truths you dislike most.

Sad that you had to resort to that

It’s “sad” that I had to “resort” to pointing out that you consider writing truthful statements “silly”?

even though I said virtually nothing of any consequence.

Well, that may be the first true thing you’ve written. What’s key here, though, is that while your comments may be of no “consequence” in isolation, they do manage to repeat popular myths about atheists and atheism. Such myths need to be countered because in the long run they serve to perpetuate animus and distrust of atheists — in other words, such myths serve the cause of hate mongers, even when repeated by people who aren’t also hate mongers.

I know a Christian you could debate with to no end, endlessly. He’s a friendless idiot.

Sounds like most Christians who post here to complain about atheism. They tend to write things like appeared in your original comment — nonsensical and false myths about atheists and atheism which they would know are false if they cared enough to ask questions first and make assumptions later.

That you responded at all was odd to me; that you responded so quickly was even more so.

Why? Do you expect combative assertions to stand unchallenged?

I believe you’re absolutely right in your assertion that theism is not a prerequisite to a fulfilling life. But if something DOES allow someone to feel fulfilled, why is their worldview wrong simply because it doesn’t agree with yours?

I’ve never asserted that a worldview is wrong merely because it disagrees with mine.

If I say that a worldview is wrong, it’s because it depends upon factual assertions which are empirically false or grossly immoral.

Why do you assume that people are (or might be) held back by a theist belief structure?

I simply pointed out that people being held back is at least as possible as people being propelled forward — i.e., that religion isn’t necessarily a universal good. The only way to deny this is to assert that religion never, ever, ever, ever has a negative impact on anyone — no religion, no time, nowhere, nohow. Do you really wish to defend such a position? I hope not.

If you’d like to see examples of people being held back by theistic belief structures, I merely need point you to the KKK and Muslim terrorists. The potential list is much longer, but that should be more than enough for anyone.

And a final one: what do you mean when you use the word “religion?”

I explore how religion is defined here.

It seems, in context, that atheism is not included within that spectrum (for you),

It’s impossible for atheism alone to be a religion, just as it’s impossible for theism alone to be a religion.

but do you believe that atheism is not a religion or that it doesn’t have all the characteristics common to other religions?

It doesn’t possess any of the characteristics necessary for a religion. At a bare minimum, religion is a belief system — a system of beliefs. Atheism isn’t even a single belief, much less a system of beliefs. Even if we define theism narrowly, it would only qualify as one belief — and one belief is not a system of beliefs.

There are atheistic religions, just as there are theistic religions, but atheism alone is not a religion. People who say it is are either woefully ignorant of both or liars.

August 22, 2010 at 2:27 pm
(87) Lisa says:

I don’t feel a void either. I am much happier than I was when I was younger and trying to grapple with my doubts and questions and still trying to be religious for my family’s sake.

It didn’t take an epiphany, just a gradual process. I went from calling myself “christian” and going to church to not going to church. At some point, I would tell people I believed in higher power, but at this point, I don’t even believe that. I am happier at this point in my life than I have ever been.

December 7, 2010 at 3:20 pm
(88) anniem says:

Lance is a true hero! If you think that people who don’t believe in god are bad people then aren’t you judging them and who gave you the right to say someone is a bad person? oh and i don’t have a void…i don’t mind people worshipping a god but I think the real way to worship is to appreciate his world that he has created; not to be cooped up in some cramped building!! I believe you should get on with the life you’ve been given and live it to the full – This is what Lance Armstrong is doing!

December 11, 2010 at 11:57 pm
(89) Pastafarian says:

I only read the first 20 or so comments and I have to agree with those that said there is no void to be filled. However I am not an atheist… As a former Christian my life was in shambles and I was failing everything I attempted with nothing left to live for. Since leaving that religion and accepting the Flying Spaghetti Monster as my deity I have done nothing but move upward in my life. Since rejecting Christianity I got a better job, got better grades in college, and beat my depression to name a few.

January 11, 2011 at 5:26 pm
(90) alan says:

Lance believes that GOD had nothing to do with his being cured? Lance Armstrong is a snob, arrogant, and down right “not a real nice guy” I know people who went to HS with this jerk and they said he was a jerk back then. Hey Lance? When GOD ask you why you turned your back on him, what are you going to say? I took steroids?

January 15, 2011 at 5:19 pm
(91) Grandpa_In_The_East says:

Allen,

You said, “I know people who went to HS with this jerk and they said he was a jerk back then.” Somehow this doesn’t sound truthful. It’s hearsay, anyway.

“Not a real nice guy” ? It is YOU who is spreading this gossip. You may be a dedicated theist but I feel it is YOU who is not a nice guy!

Grandpa

May 8, 2011 at 6:08 pm
(92) Logical Atheist says:

Alan I think the logical thing Lance did was “THANK HIS FUCKING DOCTOR”.. If it wasn’t for his doctor going to school for 10+ years he wouldn’t be alive. So tell me how God saved him? Or why God would save him if he didn’t believe ?

January 14, 2011 at 2:34 pm
(93) Todd says:

Alan,

Do you have any evidence that medicine and his own natural ability to heal *didn’t* cure him? Or that your god did? How would you prove that it was your god that did it and not Thor or the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

People can be arrogant snobs with or without religion. There’s prolly and arrogant snob sitting next to you in Church every Sunday.

January 19, 2011 at 4:36 pm
(94) Beef says:

@Marvin: regarding your last sentence, it’s probably because many of the well informed have questioned their beliefs and thought critically, and arrived at a different conclusion than you.

Although I get why atheists tend to assume the religious are idiots, it gets a bit tiring. I’m a reasonably intelligent person who has looked at the available scientific knowledge and metaphysical arguments and decided there probably is a creator.

A humble suggestion: peruse “There is a God” by Anthony Flew, former atheist turned theist. No endorsement or argument for a specific religion, just a philosophical discussion in light of developing scientific evidence.

January 19, 2011 at 8:02 pm
(95) Austin Cline says:

A humble suggestion: peruse “There is a God” by Anthony Flew, former atheist turned theist.

And what about his book, specifically, did you find compelling?

October 16, 2011 at 1:14 am
(96) Ben says:

Christians should show atheists love instead of lashing out with ignorant comments such as “have fun in hell”. Lance is entitled to believe whatever he wants. After all, God gave us a free will to believe in Him or not to believe. I have a relationship with God, but I dislike organized religion as well. Most churches try to put on a family-friendly show, and you don’t fit in if you aren’t wealthy. Yes, the doctors and treatments saved Lance, but God created the materials contained in medicenes. He’s blessed doctors and scientists with intelligent minds and guides them in the right directions for the medications to be produced. As for Lance’s testicle comment, having one nut is definitely better than being six feet under.

October 16, 2011 at 2:22 pm
(97) Austin Cline says:

Christians should show atheists love instead of lashing out with ignorant comments such as “have fun in hell”.

But atheists being damned to hell is an integral part of Christian theology.

After all, God gave us a free will to believe in Him or not to believe.

Except that belief is not an act of will. I can no more choose to believe in your god than I can choose to believe in Odin, or elves, or that I can levitate.

October 25, 2011 at 12:00 am
(98) Testicular cancer fighter says:

Live your life as you see fit…

I would rather live my life as if there is a God, die, and find out there isn’t…Than to live my life as if there were no God, die, and find out there is.

My eye’s have been opened too many times over the past 30 yrs. of the existance of God. The fact that Lance Armstrong is an atheist does put a bitter sweet spin on his fight against cancer for myself. I would never take away his accomplishments as a man because of this. The fact is that none of us know for sure the true begining of all existance, if you say you do, you’re full of crap. I feel there must be a God. The argument can go either way and around in circles. But what do you choose? I follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, because they are good and self fulfilling. At the end of the day, I know i did right. I do know that my life is very fulfilling so far the way I choose to live it. Freewill is a gift we all have, your choice, as you see fit.

November 1, 2011 at 7:15 pm
(99) MJ says:

He sounds like many atheists – wounded and understandably bitter, but not beyond hope with God’s help.

November 1, 2011 at 9:36 pm
(100) Austin Cline says:

He sounds like many atheists – wounded and understandably bitter, but not beyond hope with God’s help.

Maybe atheists wouldn’t sound wounded and bitter if there weren’t so many Christians who arrogantly and presumptuously pretend to know what they think and feel.

December 8, 2011 at 3:43 pm
(101) Joe Berryman says:

I used to be a true believer. So much so that I quit my job and went to seminary to become a pastor. It was at seminary that I learned the true nature of scripture and that 2000 years of church history was not so much about faith as it was power politics. In order to be intellectually honest with myself, I had to dump faith and embrace reason. It was because of my seminary education (and yes I now hold a degree in biblical studies) that I became an atheist and no….THERE IS NOT A GOD SHAPED VOID IN MY LIFE. I “came to Christ” as a teenage and it was not until I was near 40 that I embraced science and reason and that has been the most liberating experience of my life. I would argue that most Christians have a “reason shaped void” in their lives.

January 15, 2012 at 11:43 pm
(102) Anonymous says:

“The greatest trick the devil ever did, was to make the world believe that he didn’t exist” – That quote is probably one of the most powerful and summarizing statements that can be made about any and all religious problems and arguments.

February 13, 2012 at 1:05 pm
(103) Donna says:

He doesn’t believe in God because he lost his nuts? I just don’t see the logic. In fact, I believe in God even more now. I honestly feel sorry for him. To base his entire religious belief on his nuts. Nutty.

March 13, 2012 at 1:44 pm
(104) Koolkid says:

First of all, go Austin Cline! Secondly, the Christians posting here are literally leaving me in tears. Thank you guys so much!

April 9, 2012 at 8:59 pm
(105) mel gomez says:

lance like so many people fail to acknowledge god when a second chance at life is given. it’s not all the special doctors or nurses that treated and took extra special care of him that gave him back his life.they were doing what they were called to do.the so called smaller plan to gods greater plan for lance.perhaps he may see that in time or not,when can only pray that he does.in the mean time lance enjoy the second chance.maybe it will give you the eyes to truly see.

July 30, 2012 at 4:44 pm
(106) hmmm says:

Hmmm. So if I dnt believe in the Earth existing, I cant go there. Its just imaginary. All you people are imaging being on Earth because it doesnt exist.

August 24, 2012 at 2:09 pm
(107) Talkie says:

LOL as it turned out. lance artmstrong was a cheat. F**king atheist c*nt

October 17, 2012 at 11:07 pm
(108) Steve-0 says:

How’s that humble pie tasting Lance? Putting faith in yourself has accomplished very little for you in this life. After eating that humble pie hopefully you can wash it down with a tall glass of faith. Your human accomplishments are deceptive and short-lived, but there’s still time…

October 19, 2012 at 7:13 am
(109) Aithest says:

And the final verdict gets aired. How wonderful, honest, loving Lance Armstrong really is. How hardworking he is. Yes, he don’t need religion in his life, his god is performance enhancing drugs and lies.

October 19, 2012 at 8:06 pm
(110) Paul says:

What does he have to say now? Is he Really a Great Champion? Im not a Believer and I say Armstrong has given Atheism a Bad Name. Pathetic Lance

October 22, 2012 at 2:48 pm
(111) Silas says:

interesting remark from the author….Moreover, he is an example that it can all be done without religion and without gods.

…Psalms 14:1-2 The fool has said in his heart, There is no God! They acted corruptly; they did hatefully in deeds; there is none doing good. Jehovah looked down from Heaven on the sons of mankind, to see if there were any discerning and seeking God:

November 11, 2012 at 6:40 pm
(112) shane compton says:

i really hope anywone without faith will convert. the day will come when the clouds part and jesus returns and it will be to late for you. tell jokes, and laugh now, but you will understand very soon. go jesus

December 7, 2012 at 10:50 am
(113) bruce says:

I see what happens without God. You lose everything like lance Armstrong!

January 15, 2013 at 12:19 pm
(114) disappointed says:

I noticed he forgot honesty when mentioned what a good person can be without God…

January 16, 2013 at 10:01 pm
(115) Elisabeth says:

The man is sick and only because he managed to keep this fraud and mafia in cycling sports, it doesn’t make him ultra smart or normal. He has clear symptoms of a psychopath narcissist. He dumped the wife after she supported him during a terminal illness, ruined his race mates and cheated while accusing others of doping. A compulsive lier to the extreme! He’s got no ethics, no moral, and is a merciless sinner who not only gets to pay for his cheating and being arrogant but he also could have shut up about his lack of God and faith. But he wanted to show not even God can stop him. We know he can end up in jail and his beliefs mean zero to everybody. How ironic he said “If god existed I’d have my balls”. He never did! And he also lost his yellow jerseys and soon his money and liberty. God doesn’t punish maybe but the force Lance aligned himself with…..oh, that one takes everything and more! God is almighty and has the last word invariably.

January 18, 2013 at 7:06 pm
(116) George says:

“Lance Armstrong is a powerful example of what a human being can do when they dedicate themselves to a cause. Moreover, he is an example that it can all be done without religion and without gods”

… quite ironic, don’t you think?

How long do you think it will be before Atheists disavow their wonderful bastion of greatness… How long before this entire article is taken down?

January 18, 2013 at 9:25 pm
(117) Austin Cline says:

How long before this entire article is taken down?

You are mistakening this for a Christian site.

January 18, 2013 at 10:19 pm
(118) bjaqck says:

amen to Austin Cline

January 18, 2013 at 11:59 pm
(119) Chris Trimm says:

I guess all Lance Armstrong needs is PED’s, and yes I’m distraught that his crediblility is forever maligned.

January 19, 2013 at 12:58 am
(120) brandy says:

Well, I guess your theory is shot. You might want to find a new poster boy.

August 26, 2013 at 3:21 am
(121) mitchwall says:

Looks like God is getting the last laugh as Armstrong is being hit from all directions about his cheating and lying. Every knee shall bow and tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Even Lance Armstrong. God put you here he is the beginning. God will take you out he is the end. Alpha and Omega. What you do in between is all you have. Please God or not. You will live forever. Your destination is what is in question.

January 3, 2014 at 3:26 pm
(122) Sinner saved by GRACE:) says:

JESUS said cowards , UNBLIEVERS , vile , murdrerers idolators ,whoremongers, sorcerer s and all liars will have their part in the lake of fire ! Rev 21:8 Jesus
JESUS preached hell 10- 1 over heaven
Lake of fire -5 times -

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