Catholic Advisor Quits Bush Campaign
The National Catholic Reporter explains:
Hudson had played a key role in the forced departure of Ono Ekeh, a low level employee at the U.S. bishops' Secretariat for African-American Catholics. Ekeh hosted a "Catholics for Kerry" Internet forum and, consequently, was not suitable for employment by the bishops, Hudson said in his widely distributed e-mail column. I called Hudson and talked to him about Ekeh's departure. Politics aside, I asked, did he have any personal regret that Ekeh, a father of three young children, had lost his job? Not in the least. "If you're going to play in the sandbox," Hudson told me, "then you have to take the consequences of your public utterances and your public actions."
Also:
At the height of the Monica Lewinsky scandals, Hudson took on Bill Clinton. "Over and over again, we hear on the talk shows that we shouldn't hold the president to a 'higher standard.' I would argue quite the opposite… . Those who are not willing to bear the burden of these higher standards should not seek office… . After we have stripped away all idealism from offices that bind our culture together -- president, father, husband -- what will be left for us to aspire to? Who will want to sacrifice personal desires for public responsibilities?"
Of his daughter's reactions to the scandal, Hudson wrote that "she is being imbued with the lie that a person's private conduct makes no difference to the execution of their public responsibilities. It's this lie, alive in our culture of death, that has shaped the character of Bill Clinton and encouraged the moral softness in all of us."
What Hudson did to that student (whom he helped get drunk, despite being only 18) was far worse than what Clinton did — indeed, some might say that it was a form of rape. The above link includes a detailed description.
According to The New York Times:
At Fordham University, a Jesuit school in New York where Mr. Hudson taught from 1989 to 1995, a university spokeswoman confirmed that the episode had led to Mr. Hudson's resignation. The spokeswoman, Elizabeth Schmalz, said: "Fordham followed its policy rigorously in this matter and initiated an investigation upon receipt of the student complaint. The professor later surrendered his tenure at Fordham." A person involved with the university's investigation said that a freshman in one of Mr. Hudson's classes reported to the university that, after she had become drunk at a bar, Mr. Hudson made sexual advances toward her. After a period of weeks, she charged him with sexual harassment. The accusations were made near the end of a school year, and Mr. Hudson left academia.
Mr. Hudson, a former Southern Baptist who converted to Catholicism at the age of 34, has been an influential adviser to President Bush and a close friend of the White House political strategist Karl Rove since the late 1990's. Mr. Hudson first caught Mr. Rove's attention by publishing a study in Crisis in 1998 arguing that Republican candidates could make inroads among traditionally Democratic-leaning Catholic voters by focusing on regular churchgoers, a strategy that dovetailed with Mr. Bush's emphasis on "compassionate conservatism."
According to The Revealer:
Hudson hardly represents mainstream American Catholicism. As readers of his magazine, Crisis -- or his frequent email blasts -- know, he's the Ann Coulter of Catholicism, a profoundly angry writer who expresses his faith via vitriolic denunciations not just of liberals, but of anyone within the Catholic Church who doesn't conform to Hudson's rulings. He's a punisher.
Don't take our word for it -- ask Crux News, a conservative site run by Michael S. Rose, author of a bestselling book on "How Liberals Brought Corruption into the Catholic Church." Crux broke the story of Hudson's influence last January, following a hagiographic piece on Hudson as mover and shaker in Envoy the previous year: ""Deal Hudson: The Former Baptist Is Now a Catholic Mover and Shaker — Even in the White House." That article, writes Crux, was standard puff piece fare, but it should have put the secular press on notice. If it failed to do so, Crux's analysis of Hudson's rage (a typical Hudson email newsletter begins: "You’re about to get angry. Very angry...") should have put someone on the trail. Crux reveals Hudson as a power-hungry man who, conveniently enough, has enjoyed real power in the Bush White House.
People like Deal Hudson are disgusting self-righteous moralists, but those who employ such individuals are even worse. Two of Kerry’s religion advisors were forced to resign because they were attacked as being “too liberal” by right-wing Catholics such as the Catholic League. Bush’s Catholic advisor had to resign because he was a pervert and abused his position of authority and responsibility with an 18-year-old student in one of his classes.
This, apparently, is a sign of why George W. Bush is the president of the more religious people in America. Religious Americans want religious leaders who are make pious and devout noises (which includes nasty personal attacks on dissenters) even as they are fondling or sexually abusing the powerless back behind the stage. Heaven forbid that caring and compassionate religious liberals be given any sort of national voice.
Read More:
Comments
Austin, Aren’t you being a little hypocritical? Don’t tell me that you haven’t had some extra-marital escapades??? And NOW you’re going to tell someone publicly about how horrible it is to have a few drinks and get a little frisky? And the much later for her to finally complain? What did he do? Pat her on the butt?
And about this:
“Both atheism and agnosticism are neglected in popular culture, despite the popularity of recent books by atheists.”
So an atheist finally wrote something popular. Big deal. They don’t usually write any better than you just did. They write bullshit.
“When was the last time you saw an openly atheist politician, an article on atheism in a major periodical, or anyone discussing secular humanism as a serious alternative to religion?”
Who freaking cares? Atheism for one is a new idea thought up by people who can’t really do anything in real life–college professors to be specific. When Columbus came to America, how many tribes of atheists did he find here?
NONE. Man automatically knows that there is a God. It takes liberalism and mental gymnastics to make such an outrageous claim that there is no God.
It also contradicts itself. It claims that morality exists, but God doesn’t. Moral Atheism is an oxymoron. No one can come up with a logical reason as to why anyone should follow a moral code of any kind if there is no God. They who try to do so are merely flailing in the wind. Not a single atheist has been able to explain how or why we need morals or where they come from. They just cannot come up with a reasonable or logical explanation.
Some atheists have claimed that they didn’t believe in God and claimed that there is no right or wrong. That is, until someone slapped them in the face. All of a sudden comes the cry, “That was wrong.” So don’t be trying to convince me that you or anyone else is an atheist and intellectually honest at the same time.
But the really funny thing is that ALL the atheists that I have talked to claim that even without God there is still right and wrong. That is a contradiction. In today’s society people have come to a place that liberalism is responsible for bringing them. It is a place in their minds that allows them to hold contradicting ideas and without discomfort. It is called intellectual dishonesty. For the layman it is called “lying to yourself.”
Austin, you’re lying to yourself.
I have neither the need nor the desire. I certainly don’t need to assault or rape a younger girl.
You must, otherwise you wouldn’t bring it up.
There’s nothing new about atheism. Apparently, your own college professors didn’t educate you very well.
Really? Prove it.
Well, if it’s a logical contradiction then you should be able to demonstrate it — not merely claim it, but provide a logical demonstration.
Can you provide a better reason in the context of a god existing?
Well, then, you should be able to demonstrate it instead of just repeating the same claims over and over.
“I have neither the need nor the desire. I certainly don’t need to assault or rape a younger girl.”
I should have known. You’re gay aren’t you? And you’re also a Marxist as well. How did I know? So tell us what you HAVE done. And don’t tell us you’ve never sinned nor broken the law. We’ll know you’re lying.
“I have neither the need nor the desire. I certainly don’t need to assault or rape a younger girl.”
But you think it’s okay to accuse someone of something without proof? Now just what DID he do? Let’s be factual.
“There’s nothing new about atheism.” Apparently, your own college professors didn’t educate you very well.
hahahahahahaaaaaa It’s so new that people think the Father of Atheism is Charles Darwin. My professors taught me to think not to just accept some tenet because it is comfortable and gives me a way not to think. Yours on the other hand didn’t explain to you how that a thinking person cannot be an atheist.
“Really? Prove it.”
1. Since there were no Indian tribes that were here when Columbus arrived I cannot prove anything about it. The burden of proof is not on me. Don’t you understand “burden of proof?” Since you claim that there were atheists here the burden of proof is upon you to tell me who they were. Until then I say there weren’t any.
2. Nor were there any ancient peoples who were atheists. Do you know any who were? Name them.
3. There were no atheists even mentioned in the Bible. It’s some new fangled pseudo-intellectual idea that sounds good, if you don’t think about it very much.
“Well, if it’s a logical contradiction then you should be able to demonstrate it — not merely claim it, but provide a logical demonstration.”
What???? Are you a dunce? You’re the example you don’t believe in God, but you believe in right and wrong. That’s a contradiction. Are you too slow to understand that without further explanation? If I am wrong you shouldn’t have any problem demonstrating that right and wrong exist. A logical atheist would say there is no such thing as right and wrong, but the fact is most atheists are just atheists because it’s a great fad and it sounds intellectual. It doesn’t have to be logical.
“No one can come up with a logical reason as to why anyone should follow a moral code of any kind if there is no God.”
“Can you provide a better reason in the context of a god existing?”
No. Can you write a logical sentence? Am I going to have to get down to a fourth grade level to get you to comprehend?
Let’s start all over here. Without God there is no reason for anyone to follow a moral code. Got it now?
“Well, then, you should be able to demonstrate it instead of just repeating the same claims over and over.”
I only have one claim. Are you not paying attention? Here’s my claim. Atheism is a contradiction. Understand now?
No. Why do you assume this? Why would it matter?
Feel free to show how.
In what context?
Feel free to show where I’m doing this.
Only ignorant people think this.
Then how do you explain accepting the idea that atheism is new?
Feel free to show how.
The burden of proof is on those who make claims, and you made a claim.
Please quote where I made this claim.
Prove it.
And therefore they didn’t exist?
If it’s a logical contradiction, you should be able to demonstrate it — not merely claim it (again), but provide a logical demonstration.
“No one can come up with a logical reason as to why anyone should follow a moral code of any kind if there is no God.”
So, it sounds like you don’t believe theists are in a better position than atheists.
I know that this is your claim. Can you support it?
That’s two claims, actually. You don’t think there is only a “contradiction” if atheists insist that there is any such thing as right and wrong, but here you go a step further and say that “atheism is a contradiction,” without qualification (and apparently even if atheists stop insisting that there is such a thing as right and wrong).
Can you support this assertion?
“No. Why do you assume this? Why would it matter?
You said,”I have neither the need nor the desire.” Matters? Most all atheists I have talked with are homosexual. And besides a name like Austin kind of has that appearance.
And you’re also a Marxist as well.
Feel free to show how.
You already have shown us.
So now tell us what you HAVE done.
“In what context?”
What? Are you dodging the question again? I asked you what illegal immoral actions you’ve committed since you seem to be claiming that you’re free of all fault. And don’t ask me “In what context?” Go up above and read it. I am getting tired of having to re-explain everything to you.
But you think it’s okay to accuse someone of something without proof?
“Feel free to show where I’m doing this.”
Isn’t this your accusation of Deal Hudson? From your lips: “I certainly don’t need to assault or rape a younger girl.” Got any proof? Did he assault or rape her? Therefore you are accusing without proof. You also like to play word games instead of actually answering the questions, but what’s new for atheists?
It’s so new that people think the Father of Atheism is Charles Darwin.
“Only ignorant people think this.”
Oh really? Austin, ignorant people don’t care who the Father of Atheism is.
Now tell me who the Father of Atheism is if you’re so knowledgeable?
“Then how do you explain accepting the idea that atheism is new?”
How do I what? What college did you go to? Or did you go? Please write an intelligent question and I will answer it.
Yours on the other hand didn’t explain to you how that a thinking person cannot be an atheist.
“Feel free to show how.”
A thinking person sees the obvious contradiction without any explanation. It’s obvious. If not you should have no trouble proving there is no God.
1. Since there were no Indian tribes that were here when Columbus arrived I cannot prove anything about it. The burden of proof is not on me.
“The burden of proof is on those who make claims, and you made a claim.”
Actually, I asked you a question. Remember? “When Columbus came to America, how many tribes of atheists did he find here?”
Now answer it.
BTW you obviously don’t understand “burden of proof.”
2. Nor were there any ancient peoples who were atheists.
“Prove it.”
Is all you can say is, “Prove it?” I made a statement. It’s common knowledge. If you disagree then you prove there were ancient atheists. If not then my statement stands.
3. There were no atheists even mentioned in the Bible.
“And therefore they didn’t exist?”
Do you know of any? NO, you don’t so quit the word games. There weren’t any.
You’re the example you don’t believe in God, but you believe in right and wrong. That’s a contradiction.
“If it’s a logical contradiction, you should be able to demonstrate it — not merely claim it (again), but provide a logical demonstration.”
Hey Dumbo. You don’t demonstrate a contradiction. That’s why it’s a contradiction. I don’t think you should be throwing the word ignorant at anyone ever again.
No one can come up with a logical reason as to why anyone should follow a moral code of any kind if there is no God.
“Can you provide a better reason in the context of a god existing?”
No.
“So, it sounds like you don’t believe theists are in a better position than atheists. ”
Really? And just how do you come up with that? Do I need to get down on a fourth grade level to explain simple things to you?
Without God there is no reason for anyone to follow a moral code. Got it now?
“I know that this is your claim. Can you support it?”
Are you totally uneducated? Let me repeat. Without God there is no reason to follow a moral code. I don’t need to support it. Until someone can prove it wrong, it stands. And as it seems you’re unable to provide any such proof. As I said, your professors must have left a few things out. Either that or you slept through debate class.
I only have one claim. Are you not paying attention? Here’s my claim. Atheism is a contradiction. Understand now?
“That’s two claims, actually. You don’t think there is only a “contradiction” if atheists insist that there is any such thing as right and wrong, but here you go a step further and say that “atheism is a contradiction,” without qualification (and apparently even if atheists stop insisting that there is such a thing as right and wrong).
Can you support this assertion?”
What? My father told me I shouldn’t argue with a dunce. But here I go again. Atheism is a contradiction. That’s one claim not two. I qualified it by explaining that without God there is no right or wrong yet atheists claim that right and wrong exist.
I think you need to prove that right and wrong exist. Since I believe in God I don’t need to prove right and wrong. It goes with the territory. No contradiction.
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised after reading that article. About all you can do is cut and paste other people’s work. It’s so close to plagiarism that I can’t tell the difference.
I also notice your arrogant sissy looking picture. You spent your life sucking off your parents who sweated to put you through school. You’ve never had a job doing a man’s work in your whole life. You haven’t supported or raised a family and you haven’t been in the military. Butt here you are telling us all about how the world works. I hope you haven’t put your foot so deep into you mouth that you have actually said at some time, “I live in the real world.” Buddy, you’re living a fantasy.
Yes, I have neither the need nor the desire for “extra-marital escapades.” Feel free to explain what that has to do with your conclusion that I’m gay.
Can you provide evidence of this - like, say, listing all these gay atheists?
What sort of connection is there between a name and sexual orientation?
I assume if you could point any evidence you would.
You didn’t ask me what illegal or immoral actions I have done, you just asked what I have done. Since I have never claimed that I’m free from fault, though, the reason for your question appears to be nonexistent.
How does one go about proving that they don’t need to assault or rape someone, except through their own testimony about their feelings.
All depends on how broadly you define rape, a point which I make clear in the article. Did you miss it?
Atheism is simply the absence of belief in gods and, as such, has no “father” - it’s the default state we are all born into.
It’s also not a proper noun, so capitalizing it in the middle of a sentence is incorrect.
Do you imagine this allows you to not have to support your claims about atheism?
Yes, you did — and you answered it yourself. You claimed that he found no such tribes here. You also claimed, quite unambiguously, that there were no ancient peoples who were atheists. Those are two claims you have, according to your own standards, an obligation to prove.
When a person answers their own question, then question was intended rhetorically. Rhetorical questions aren’t asked in order to be answered, but rather to make a rhetorical point. Unfortunately for you, you also made a claim at the same time and now have to support that claim. Next time, you should proceed more cautiously and not make claims you cannot prove.
Knowledge is a justified, true belief. So, provide the justification for believing it.
So, you think that anything others cannot prove wrong is something you are justified in believing?
Prove it.
Why not?
Why not?
Well, then: With God, there is no reason to follow a moral code. I don’t need to support it. Until you can prove it wrong, it stands.
OK?
Just another liar, bully, and crook seeking rhetorical advantage. Force and fraud. Fast talk and baloney.
Wow! Jack Savage sure lives up to his name! What an absolutely hateful person. Where did he go to college? Under a Rock University?!! When someone talks like Savage, it makes me think he finds atheism threatening because it awakens doubt in his own mind and that scares him to think that fairy tale world of his doesn’t really exist. Most atheists I know adopt a live and let live attitude. If Savage thinks atheists are just some sort of fad group, why does he take them so seriously? I am an atheist and I am not gay. Some of my best friends are gay, though. Savage should crawl back under that rock he came out from under.
When you point out that when Columbus came to America none of the tribes were atheists. True! Then you say that man knows that there is a God. False! The word atheist wouldn’t even exist if that were so. In order to prove the existence of something you must be able to examine, measure, or in some way test for it. Since this cannot be done the only place a God can come from is the human imagination. Since humans made their God and pretended it was the other way around it shows a flaw in our moral concept. The easiest way to protect ourselves is to claim that the other side has no morals.
This guy is a troll. And a rather unoriginal, unintelligent troll at that.
Jack Savage.
What an arsehole. I don’t think he made one claim or statement that wasn’t completely false and extremely simple to disprove.
His views and statements perfectly typify all that is evil about religion and the religious mindset.
He must consider debate with others a lost cause, because anyone reading his comments and opinions can only conclude that whatever shapes his thought process is ignorant and hateful. That said, providing him with a few quotes about religious non-belief might have had him leave here sooner, so here goes:
John Adams - (born in Quincy, Massachusetts on 30 Oct 1735 - died in Washington, USA on 4 July 1826) - 1st Vice-President and 2nd President of the USA.
“This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.” - from a letter to Thomas Jefferson.
“The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.” - Treaty of Tripoli, article 11
Anaxagoras - (500? - 428? BCE) - Greek philosopher, and possibly the first freethinker we know of to be condemned for his beliefs. He regarded the conventional gods as mythic abstractions endowed with anthropomorphic attributes. His writings led him to a dungeon, charged with impiety, probably about the year 450 BCE. Only the intervention of the great statesman and orator Pericles saved Anaxagoras from a death sentence. He had to pay a fine and, according to some accounts, was banished. He lived his final years in exile.
Aristophanes - (circa 448 - 380 BCE) - ancient Greek dramatist who figured out that weather was its own explanation, and that nature “rid of all gods” did the work that self-centred humans assumed was divinely inspired for their benefit - as articulated in his best-known play, The Clouds (423).
“Shrines! Shrines! Surely you don’t believe in the gods. What’s your argument? What’s your proof?”
“Men create the gods after their own image, not only with regard to their form but with regard to their mode of life.”
Aristotle - (348-322 BCE) - one of the greatest of the ancient Greek philosophers.
“A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him believing that he has the gods on his side.”
Sir Francis Bacon - (born in London on 22 Jan 1561 - died in London on 9 Apr 1626) - English philosopher, statesman and essayist best known for leading the scientific revolution with his new theory of ‘observation and experimentation’, which is how science has been conducted ever since.
“atheism leads a man to sense, to philosophy, to natural piety, to laws, to reputation: all of which may be guides to an outward moral virtue . . . ”
Ludwig van Beethoven - (born 1770, died 1827?) - The great musician was reared a Catholic but quit the church and adopted Goethe’s Pantheism. Pantheism, as you know, is the doctrine that equates god with the forces and laws of the universe. It is piquant that the musical expert who thus appreciates his mass, Sir. G. Macfarrcn, describes him as “a freethinker” - that is to say, an Atheist - (in the Imper. Dict. of Univ. Biog.) Beethoven’s most authoritative biographers are clear about his views on religion. When he was dying he yielded to the pressure of Catholic friends and let a priest administer the sacraments, but it is admitted that when the priest left the room Beethoven said, in the Latin words of the ancient Roman theatre, “Applaud, my friends, the comedy is over.” During the years of his full inspiration he had little religious feeling. When Felix Moscheles once scribbled on a manuscript, “With God’s help,” Beethoven wrote, “Man, help thyself.”
Napoleon Bonaparte - (born in Ajaccio Corsica on 15 Aug 1769 - died imprisoned on the island of Saint Helena on 5 May 1821) - Corsican-born French Emperor and one of the most brilliant generals and civil administrators of all time. .
“All religions have been made by men.”
Diagoras “the Atheist” of Melos - (5th Century BCE) - Greek poet. Threw a wooden image of a god into a fire, remarking that the deity should perform another miracle and save itself. The uproar this caused in Athens prompted Diagoras to flee for his life. Athens outlawed him and offered a reward for his capture dead or alive. He lived out his life in Spartan territory.
Epicurus - (341 - 270 BCE) - ancient Greek philosopher who followed the hypotheses of Democritus and the Atomists (one of the most important scientific Theories).
“Is god willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him god?”
Benjamin Franklin - (17 Jan 1706 - 17 April 1790) - one of the greatest inventors of the 18th Century. Scientist, inventor, statesman, and intellectual and moral father of the United States.
“I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies.”
Andrew Jackson - () - President of the United States.
“I could not do otherwise without transcending the limits prescribed by the Constitution for the President and without feeling that I might in some degree disturb the security which religion nowadays enjoys in this country in its complete separation from the political concerns of the General Government.” - Andrew Jackson, 1832, in a statement refusing to proclaim a national day of fasting and prayer, Correspondence 4:447.
Thomas Jefferson - (1743-1826) - 3rd President of the United States. Author, scientist, architect, and dedicated foe of religion.
“I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.”
“Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies.”
Abraham Lincoln - (1809 - 1865) - one of the most revered American presidents, possibly second only to George Washington.
“The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma.” Joseph Lewis quoting Lincoln in a 1924 speech in New York
Lucretius - (99 - 55 BCE) - Roman poet and admirer of Epicuris who responded to the revival of worship under Augustus with a satirical poem De Rerum Natura (On the Nature of Things). Medieval Christians destroyed every copy of this they could find, and only one copy of it survived. He pointed out that the nothingness after life was no different than the nothingness that preceeded it, and ridiculed the vanity of funeral rites.
“Fear is the mother of all gods. Nature does all things spontaneously by herself, without their meddling.”
Abu Ala Al-Ma’arri - (born 26 Dec 973 - died 1057 AD) - Arab philosopher blinded at the age of five. His collections of poetry are entitled The Tinder Spark and Unnecessary Necessity. Noted for his disbelief in revealed religion, an opinion which would not be tolerated today in Arab society.
“The world holds two classes of men - intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intelligence.”
“Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer.”
“Theists think all gods but theirs are false.”
James Madison - (1751-1836) - American president and political theorist. Popularly known as the “Father of the Constitution.” More than any other framer he is responsible for the content and form of the famous First Amendment.
“Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise.” April 1, 1774
Ferdinand Magellan - (1480–1521) - Portuguese navigator and discoverer of the Straits of Magellan in 1520 and the Philippines in 1521.
“The church says the earth is flat, but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the church.”
Thomas Paine - (1737-1809) - one of six “deists” who founded the United States (Adams, Franklin, Jefferson, Madison, and Washington). He coined the term “United States of America”, which the new nation adopted.
“I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of….Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and of my own part, I disbelieve them all.” From The Age of Reason, pp. 89
Theodore Roosevelt - (1901-1909) - 26th President of the United States.
“To discriminate against a thoroughly upright citizen because he belongs to some particular church, or because, like Abraham Lincoln, he has not avowed his allegiance to any church, is an outrage against that liberty of conscience which is one of the foundations of American life.” letter to J. C. Martin, 9 November 1908
Socrates - (murdered 399 BC) - Greek philosopher forced to kill himself by eating hemlock for denying the existence of gods.
Mr. Cline,
What point is there conducting a debate with the likes of this Mr. Savage? It is quite clear from both the nature of his arguments and his answers that he has all the maturity of a 12 year-old boy. He assumes that if you are not inclined to commit rape (or whatever sin he is inclined to), you must be gay, with the implication that this is just about the most horrible thing a person can be. He also equates any stance on religion different from his own as equivalent to homosexuality, which again rears its head as the universal scapegoat. There are a lot of people in this world who think at this sad level of maturity, and a lot of them are staunch defenders of their faith (be it their religion, their nationality, their favorite football team or Pokemon character), but clearly not all of the faithful are ranting lunatics. Most are ordinary, reasonably rational people who simply have not seriously considered any other options than the ones thrust upon them by their families and cultures.
“Do I need to get down on a fourth grade level to explain simple things to you?”
Don’t you mean up to a fourth grade level?
Sorry, I couldn’t resist.
Jack is a Savage man, I cannot understand what he has against atheism, I am an atheist and have many religious family members, some who know that I don’t believe in god(s), also my best friend in life is religious, he knows I’m an atheist and doesn’t impose his religious thoughts on me, I don’t push my atheism on him either. I respect people (religious or not) for who they are not for what they believe in.
As with some others I felt reluctant to descend to the level of non intelligent debate with the ignoble savage.
As an octogenarian WW11 veteran, lifelong atheist, father of three, certainly not “Gay”
Married in our mid/late twenties, both of us virginal.Stayed, loyally, married to the lovely Quaker, ex U S N (WW11)lady, for forty six years. I do not drink alcohol, nor take drugs, including tobacco. I’ll back my personal morals against the obvious lack of Mr Savage’s who evidently thinks aberrant sexual behaviour, of any kind, between a tutor and pupil is acceptable. As an ex educator in a field where both(adult)sexes were exposed to
possible temptations, it was unthinkable for a lecturer to take advantage of such a situation
If you want an example of tribes who had no concept of a Deity then visit Australia where there were examples.
It is understandable that when one is indoctrinated from birth with a belief, imbued by those, who when they couldn’t find an answer to. When, Why or Whence. invented a
mythical being, to fill the void in understanding, and then carry on believing.
Charles Darwin was one of these. Darwin never wrote a single line refuting his lifelong Christianity. Darwin was NEVER an atheist.
Darwin lived and died a communicant, and regular church goer, of the Church of England (Episcopalian).
Mr Savage’s claims of academic learning is not evidenced by his writing. Maybe it was the University of the First Church of the Ozarks.
tomedgar@halenet.com.au
Mr Savage’s claims of academic learning is not evidenced by his writing. Maybe it was the University of the First Church of the Ozarks. Tom Edgar @ July 29, 2008 at 7:58 pm
Hey, how did the Ozarks get dragged into this? The most inbred hillbilly that ever brewed moonshine has manners and intellectual attainments that are superior to Jackie’s.
The Ozarks? This guy could easily be from my home town in Colorado! He sounds just like most of my former neighbors, in the home of Focus on the Family. Where I grew up, if they found a dead body in the creek and the victim turned out to be gay, the police wouldn’t bother to investigate. I had a friend who was Jewish who made the mistake of taking some pride in her heritage. When she put a Star of David bumper sticker on her car, vandals attacked her house every Saturday night. When they started shooting into her windows at 4 am, she called the police, but when they found out she was Jewish they showed noticeably less interest in investigating. The church boys only stopped harassing her when she started shooting back. People like Mr. Savage are not just obnoxious fools and dupes, they are dangerous fools with a whole lot of like-minded friends. The irony of expressing Christ’s love with axe handles and rifles is completely lost on them.
What a fascinating conversation! Is this what happens when an angry boy, which is what Jack Savage sounds like, tries to have a debate with grown-ups?
He wrote: “No one can come up with a logical reason as to why anyone should follow a moral code of any kind if there is no God. They who try to do so are merely flailing in the wind. Not a single atheist has been able to explain how or why we need morals or where they come from.”
Morals come from the human mind. Is that simple enough for you, Jack? Obviously, yours aren’t well developed yet. You don’t know the rudiments of intelligent discourse. Calling someone “Dumbo” doesn’t strengthen your position.
We need morals in order to get along in society. You don’t need religion, just intellect and sensitivity to others, to know how to be moral. Simply observe the laws of your community and use your brain to reason why those laws help keep order in society. Follow them in order to stay out of prison (at the very least). Ideally, go beyond what society expects of you and try to contribute in positive ways to alleviate suffering, advance civilization, and earn that “feel-good” sensation that comes from being a moral person.
Adding gods and goddesses into the mix doesn’t contribute one thing to ethical behavior. It just provides more “commandments” for believers to break at will.
By the way, thank you for admitting that the atheist position sounds intellectual. It does, because it is!
P.S. Jack, try to do some thinking, research, and processing of answers instead of just looking for ways to personally attack Austin, who, by the way, has a terrific and sexy name, in my humble opinion! “Jack Savage” sounds like a hyper-macho sobriquet for someone who is deficient in the facial hair department and is better at playing violent video games than following intellectual arguments.
P.P.S. You only need one question mark at the end of an interrogative sentence.
No better example exists of why it is so difficult to reason with a fundamentalist than Savages’ rant. Piles of hate and dogma and fear and ignorance are carefully guarded. The shovel of reason is to be feared as the price of a clean mind and an easy non-judgemental and humanistic lifestyle is a one way trip to their god’s hell.
Fear is what motivates people like Savage. Fear of choice and the contagiousness of sin is what causes them meddle in everyone elses business, dictating morals and creed to the world at large. Overcoming the fear of death is the key to changing people like Savage.
JOAN SAID:
“When someone talks like Savage, it makes me think he finds atheism threatening because it awakens doubt in his own mind and that scares him to think that fairy tale world of his doesn’t really exist.”
JACK LAUGHS: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA
I am really scared!
Hey Joan, you think I AM threatened? Look at all the fear being released in all the comments above. What’s to fear? If there is no God, then who cares? My comments should mean absolutely nothing, but the reverse is the fact. You atheists who don’t believe in God are terrified of maybe finding out that there is one. Therefore you go through all sorts of rationalizing to keep up the fantasy.
JOAN SAID: Most atheists I know adopt a live and let live attitude.
JACKS LAUGHS HIS ASS OFF: That’s not what I am seeing by the comments up above.
FOR EXAMPLE:
“People like Mr. Savage are not just obnoxious fools and dupes, they are dangerous fools with a whole lot of like-minded friends.”
Is this guy afraid or what?
AND:
Nate Mullikin says:
“Fear is what motivates people like Savage.”
Joan, here is one more scared atheist accusing me of fear. I posted a few thoughts and all the wacko atheists on the net suddenly come out of the wordwork to yell and scream their epithets about how fearful I am.
NATE MULLIKIN SAID: “No better example exists of why it is so difficult to reason with a fundamentalist than Savages’ rant.
Hey Nate, I am not a fundamentalist. Do you know what a fundamentalist is? Is it a name you apply to anyone who scares you?
NATE CONTINUES: “Piles of hate and dogma and fear and ignorance are carefully guarded.”
OH WOW! “PILES OF HATE AND DOGMA….” oooooh oooooh That’s just awful Nate! And it’s “carefully guarded” tooooooo.
You must be another sissy that never did a man’s work in all his life. Ever been in the military Nate? Of course not. You’re a weeny boy.
HAR HAR HAR…….. NATE MULLIGAN SAYS HE DON’T FEAR DEATH……….WHAT A LIAR…I BET I COULD PROVE HIM WRONG ON THAT…….WANNA BET ME SISSY-BOY. NATIE-POO DO YOU HAVE EVEN THE SLIGHTEST IDEA HOW MANY GUYS I’VE SEEN EAT THOSE WORDS……..NATIE-POO HAVE YOU EVER BEEN AROUND REAL MEN?……NOOOOOOO….I KNOW PLENTY OF EM THAT CAN MAKE YOUR SORRY CITIBOY OFFICE SISSY ASS FEAR DEATH. HOW PHONEY YOU ARE. MR. NOFEAR MY ASS.
QUICK MR AUSTIN-FREESPEECH DELETE THIS QIUK….IT MAKES YOU GUYS LOOK LIKE SISSIES.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fundamentalist
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalism
Top Ten Signs You’re a Fundamentalist Christian
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.
9 - You feel insulted and “dehumanized” when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.
8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.
7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the “atrocities” attributed to Allah, but you don’t even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in “Exodus” and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in “Joshua” including women, children, and trees!
6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.
4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs — though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most “tolerant” and “loving.”
3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in “tongues” may be all the evidence you need to “prove” Christianity.
2 - You define 0.01% as a “high success rate” when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.
1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.
I WAS SOOOOOO PROUD OF JOHN ….”GUTLESS”… KERRY FOR SHOOTING A 12 YEAR OLD VIETNAMESE BOY IN THE BACK ( HIS ONLY KILL IN VIETNAM) SO HE COULD SAY HE KILLED SOMEONE DURING THE WAR……….WHAT A YELLOW BELLIED COWARD….BUT NOT LOW ENOUGH FOR A LIB-COMMIE TO BE ASHAMED OF HIM……WHAT A RAT-PANTY-WASTE.
Since I am a nutcase you can just ignore what I have written below here. It’s useless and you shouldn’t bother yourselves with responding.
——————-
I have said before. Man by nature believes in God. He is a logical being with a mind. All men have always believed in a supreme being. Always.
Look back only 500 years. Columbus discovered America. Was he surprised when he found that there were no atheist Indian tribes? Of course not. He never even considered such a thing. There were no atheists at that time in history. It is such a new thing that if you look up “the father of atheism” on the internet you will find that people believe that Charles Darwin was the father of atheism. He wasn’t, but many people think he is.
Atheism is a ridiculous idea that accomplishes nothing. Name a single atheist that has ever thought up anything really useful in the area of philosphy. Every atheist country we know today is evil and is collapsing because of its ridiculous ideas.
When has an atheist ever authored any kind of moral law that can be the foundation of any society?
The Ten Commandments are what have brought civilization to the World. Atheism is quickly destroying it.
What has atheism brought to the world??? Here is the answer. Read it and heed it.
MASS MURDER!!!
MORE THAN 60 MILLION IN COMMUNIST RUSSIA
MORE THAN 200 MILLION IN RED CHINA
UNTOLD MILLIONS IN SOUTHEAST ASIA
UNTOLD MILLIONS IN AFRICA
MORE THAN ALL THE KINGS IN HISTORY PUT TOGETHER!!!!
DO YOU COMPREHEND MASS MURDER??????
Here are the rules for a Fundamentalist Atheist
The Liberal Ten Commandments
1. Thou shalt have no false communists before you.
2. Thou shalt believe in other gods as it suits you.
3. THY BOY CHILD SHALT HAVE A JON-JON HAIRCUT and thy daughter’s shalt dress like sluts.
4. Thou shalt not be judgmental.
5. Thou shalt not discriminate.
6. Thou shalt honor Marx, Lenin, Martin Luther King Jr. , and Rosa Parks.
7. Thou shalt not be a homophobe.
8. Thou shalt be socialist in all your thinking.
9. Thou shalt hate Joe McCarthy and never admit him to be right.
10. Thou shalt not be a sexist.
11. Thou shalt be a pacifist unless the war is beneficial to the communist side.
12. Thou shalt always lean to the left, no matter what.
13. Thou shalt not eat meat anytime during the week. Eat fish.
14. Thou shalt not be intolerant.
15. Thou shalt not be a racist.
16. Thou shalt be politically correct.
17. Thou shalt not be prudish or a virgin.
18. Thou shalt not be a bigot.
19. Thou shalt live in the real world.
20. Thou shalt love minorities with all thy heart and jam as many planned parenthood ‘clinics’ possible into their neighborhoods.
21. Thou shalt not have more than 1.75 children.
22. Thou shalt use birth control, abortion, and homosexuality so that your disgusting race destroys it’s disgusting self and so that the Muslims rule the world.
23. Thou shalt not covet an SUV
24. Thou shalt reward people unequally for their labors, in the name of equality.
25. Thou shalt strive to understand a person’s true feelings while they stab you and your family to death instead of taking any action to defend either yourself or the innocent.
26. Thou shalt hate and revile tobacco smokers But fall down and adore a big fat doobie.
27. Thou shalt be multi-cultural.
28. Thou shalt be diverse.
29. Thou shalt not admit to all the ones you break as a matter of rule especially commandments 4, 5, 10, 13, 14, 17, and 18.
30. Thou shalt not pay attention to the constitution
31. Thou shalt not take the name of the Supreme Court in vain.
32. Thou shalt not kill except for convenience or sex.
33. Thou shalt not get charged with fraud
34. Thou shalt not take bribes from known criminals
35. Thou shalt not stereotype.
36. Thou shalt not profile.
37. Thou shalt believe that drawings of monkeys getting taller is proof of evolution.
38. Riding a bicycle in the way of traffic is a holy thing.
39. A rite of manhood is getting your first fanny pack.
40. Thou shalt never give a simplistic answer.
41. Thou shalt not censor.
What a trio of jarheads. Grab any sentences out of any body sphincters lately, guys? You sure don’t do any research.
Stalin thinks he makes us look like sissies when in reality he makes himself look like a drunken fool. And, brave man who knows all, I can tell you I don’t fear death – a long lingering dying, yes. Death to me is returning to the state I was in before I was born – i.e. oblivion. Now if all you tough guy men fear oblivion, you are wusses to a serious degree. So, tell us some of your war stories Stalin. I for one can’t wait. Or were you even allowed in - anybody who’s main idea of contributing to a discussion is insulting people using gay derogatory terms has some kind of problem.
Besides being so stupid he can’t write a decent sentence.
The 10 Commandments brought civilization to the world. Can’t argue with that. Because I’m laughing too hard. Yes, they are a wonder. The first three show God to be about as insecure as a 12 yr old girl. They have nothing to do with anything except him. The fourth is explicit instructions on how to worship him so we’re at number 5 before the doofus gets around to anybody but himself. I fail to see how this advanced civilization since even Christians ignore at least three of them most of the time and four are concerned only with God being sure he’s numero uno.
Two are universal unless you’re such a simp you think murder and stealing were merely considered bad manners until your god came along to make them sins. Evidently nobody told Sky Chief you can’t legislate morality – or in this case order people to be moral. That don’t covet your neighbor’s wife sure stopped that cold in its tracks, didn’t it? Ditto with adultery. Honor they father and mother – he couldn’t do any better than that? And are you lame enough to think people wouldn’t do that if it weren’t a commandment. On the other hand, if Stalin here has a son or daughter, would we really expect them to honor this jerk? It’s a pathetic commandment. For all you people’s talk about morality stemming from Christianity, ¾ of the world isn’t Christian and I dare say they are a lot more moral than this country. We stomp around the earth like the oaf Stalin up there insulting and demanding people do this and that until we get a real chimp in office, he lies – uh oh, commandment ) to get us to invade a country who did nothing to us in a situation our military shouldn’t even have been in. Some radical Islamists stole some planes and crashed into some buildings. A heinous act to be sure, but a civil crime, not an attack by a nation or a religion or even by a large group of people. So why are we at war, killing innocent Iraqi’s by the truckload? Doesn’t seem very moral to me. But to get back to your commandments, a bunch of lame it’s all about ME from an insecure God, 2 that he had to be a total idiot not to know were already prohibited by man himself for eons before he got around to telling Moses, and the rest stupid stuff that nobody pays any attention to. God gives humans a sex drive and then says don’t covet your neighbor’s wife? Smart thinking, Big Fella, Should’ve thought of that before you filled us all full of hormones.
Yes, I comprehend mass murder. Christians have been guilty of it for centuries. The Inquisition, The Crusades, the wiping out of native peoples every time they landed anywhere and found some brown people had gotten there ahead of them. When they didn’t have that they had hundred of thousands of ‘witches’ to torture and kill, and all sorts of their own believers who happened to come to a difference conclusion on a article of dogma. The Albigensians, as just one example? Took 300 years but those bloodthirsty Christians back then didn’t quit a job until they finished it and wiped several million of them off the face of the earth. And many more. Stalin was an insane madman – kind of like ours on this forum – who was only an atheist because Marx and Engels thought that should be an important part of communism. Even then, he didn’t kill for the greater glory of atheism, he could care less. He killed for power and anybody who was a threat to his power and anybody who might follow someone who was a threat to his power. There’s not a single record of anybody being saved because they confessed to being an atheist at the last minutes. Papa Joe frankly didn’t care what you were. He was a paranoid killer and that’s what paranoid killers do. I have no idea what Red China and Southeast Asia have to do with this and how it helps your argument here but I read it, feel no need to heed it. If they were killing as atheists they sure weren’t targeting Christians. I’ve always wondered why any sane Christian even brings this one up. I mean, where exactly is the moral high ground here? As a Christian are you proud to say, hey we’re not so bad, a madman in Russia slaughtered a lot of people and those guys in Asia, we’re not the only ones. A great reason for a religion to puff their chests. And a fine foundation for a civilization to grow on.
The Philosophers thing shows you’re either ignorant or so brain washed you couldn’t see truth if popped up in the middle of the road in blinding light. Just a very few off the top of my head – Sartre. Bertrand Russell, Santayana, Simone de Beauvoir, Nietzsche. I’ll be the first to admit I’m not a philosophy expert so I’m drawing a blank here, but first-rate intellects all. You’ll just say they thought up nothing beneficial. Certainly not as beneficial as Jesus’ idea of unconditional love, believe in me and everything I say or burn forever. But they contributed great idea to the human condition. Christianity has contributed nothing but robotic people and idiotic comments like you, Stalin, and this functional illiterate Savage have here. You 3 are a walking advertisement for non-believing. Like I couldn’t wait to spend eternity around the likes of you guys.
Every atheist country we know today is evil and is collapsing because of its ridiculous ideas.
Name these countries – oh you’re probably referring to China who in about 20 years are going to be telling the USA how high to jump and when. In fact if they wanted to call in just 25 percent of the US debt they hold, you’d be be riding a burro in a week or two. And that’s not a country we’re going to lie to start a war with. Our bully days are about to end. And evil? Who’s been more evil than the United States the last 8 years? Torture, claiming they need to shred the bill of rights because they ignored repeated warnings that something involving airplanes was about to happen. Read and heed this Nutcase — religion has been the biggest ball and chain on the advancement of humanity than all the other negatives combined – from the dark ages to the slaughter of the religious wars in the Middle Ages to the Crusades, to the suppression of science and independent thought, Christianity is a blot on mankind. Any man who can’t figure out mankind invented God because he needed to think there was something everlasting about him is a fool – even if he is just a sack of skin and bones worth about a quarter – he wants to live forever.
Hell, I’ve wasted enough time on you 3 – Savage you just might be the dumbest person I’ve ever read on this forum – ridicule, sarcasm, arrogance and ignorance – you’re a connie Christian alright. Racist, ignorant, homophobic (amazing gift that you can tell a person’s sexual orientation through name alone — what a mind! what a bigot). And Stalin, I’m proud to be a libtard – libcom or whatever your very original and thigh slapping term is. But to put it better, I am whatever you are not. Always, no matter what the topic.
Fanatical Mike whines and whines and whines:
“What a trio of jarheads. Grab any sentences out of any body sphincters lately, guys? You sure don’t do any research.”
JACK RELPIES: That was brilliant Mike, you sure showed us.
FANATICAL MIKE SAID: “Stalin thinks he makes us look like sissies…”
JACK: No, he merely pointed out that you make yourselves look like that.
FANATICAL MIKE SAID: “Besides being so stupid he can’t write a decent sentence.”
JACK: That was certainly a great example of a sentence for us Mike
FANATICAL MIKE SAID: The 10 Commandments brought civilization to the world. Can’t argue with that.
JACK: Of course.
FANATICAL MIKE SAID: Two are universal unless you’re such a simp you think murder and stealing were merely considered bad manners until your god came along to make them sins.
JACK: I have a question for you Mike. Without God what is wrong with a little murder and theft? (BTW Your sentences aren’t improving much.)
FANATICAL MIKE SAID: Evidently nobody told Sky Chief you can’t legislate morality – or in this case order people to be moral.
JACK: Oh really Mr. Genius? How about just doing away with all of our criminal laws and closing the jails?
FANATICAL MIKE SAID: “And are you lame enough to think people wouldn’t do that if it weren’t a commandment.”
JACK: Why else?
FANATICAL MIKE SAID: On the other hand, if Stalin here has a son or daughter, would we really expect them to honor this jerk?
JACK: And with all of the ignorant ranting you’ve done, do your children still honor you?
FANATICAL MIKE SAID: It’s a pathetic commandment. For all you people’s talk about morality stemming from Christianity, ¾ of the world isn’t Christian and I dare say they are a lot more moral than this country.
JACK: Great! And I suppose you researched this “fact?”
FANATICAL MIKE SAID: “We stomp around the earth like the oaf Stalin up there insulting and demanding people do this and that until we get a real chimp in office, he lies – uh oh, commandment ) to get us to invade a country who did nothing to us in a situation our military shouldn’t even have been in.”
JACK: Is this sentence another fine example of your educational level?
FANATICAL MIKE SAID: Some radical Islamists stole some planes and crashed into some buildings. A heinous act to be sure, but a civil crime, not an attack by a nation or a religion or even by a large group of people.
JACK: You must not be paying attention at all. Do you ever read the paper? Ever listen to talk radio?
FANATICAL MIKE SAID: God gives humans a sex drive and then says don’t covet your neighbor’s wife? Smart thinking, Big Fella, Should’ve thought of that before you filled us all full of hormones.
JACK: Great Mike, I am glad to see that you don’t mind your wife’s and mother’s sleeping around a little now and then.
FANATICAL MIKE SAID: Yes, I comprehend mass murder. Christians have been guilty of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah…….
JACK: And YOU tell US that WE have been brainwashed?
FANATICAL MIKE SAID: Stalin was an insane madman – kind of like ours on this forum – who was only an atheist because Marx and Engels thought that should be an important part of communism.
JACK: BWAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAA Mike, kind of like your usual run of the mill atheist? And you’re only an atheist because??????? Oh, you did research on all these subjects. I forgot. You are such a wit.
FANATICAL MIKE SAID: Even then, he didn’t kill for the greater glory of atheism, he could care less. He killed for power and anybody who was a threat to his power and anybody who might follow someone who was a threat to his power.
JACK: Isn’t that what atheism is all about? He only killed 60 million people and of course he had Christians doing it for him, right? No self-respecting atheist would help Stalin kill 60 million people. (Try to read this with great sarcasm in your voice.) Mao killed somewhere between 200 and 300 million and you want to compare that to the Inquisition? You’re just a genius! Have you ever actually done thorough research on the Inquisition or did you just take the word of your Marxist indoctrinators?
FANATICAL MIKE SAID: There’s not a single record of anybody being saved because they confessed to being an atheist at the last minutes.
JACK: And that proves? That atheism wasn’t responsible for anything? Don’t make me laugh. I suppose you researched that too?
FANATICAL MIKE SAID: If they were killing as atheists they sure weren’t targeting Christians.
JACK: No? And who did they target? And why did they arrest and kill all those priests and bishops? Because they were capitalists?
FANATICAL MIKE SAID: I’ve always wondered why any sane Christian even brings this one up. I mean, where exactly is the moral high ground here? As a Christian are you proud to say, hey we’re not so bad, a madman in Russia slaughtered a lot of people and those guys in Asia, we’re not the only ones.
JACK: Nope, I just want to set the record straight. The main reason is because you people claim to be the saviors of the world and that you do no wrong. You continually condemn Christians while having colossal mass graveyards of people who disagree with you.
FANATICAL MIKE SAID: A great reason for a religion to puff their chests. And a fine foundation for a civilization to grow on.
JACK: If you’re going to criticize someone’s grammar you better find an editor before you publish such sentences.
FANATICAL MIKE SAID: The Philosophers thing shows you’re either ignorant or so brain washed you couldn’t see truth if popped up in the middle of the road in blinding light. Just a very few off the top of my head – Sartre. Bertrand Russell, Santayana, Simone de Beauvoir, Nietzsche.
JACK: Philosophy that isn’t true isn’t philosophy. Now tell me one original philosophical construct that any of them contributed to truth. And you talk about brainwashed?
FANATICAL MIKE SAID: I’ll be the first to admit I’m not a philosophy expert ….
JACK: You should. It’s so obvious it hurts.
FANATICAL MIKE SAID: You’ll just say they thought up nothing beneficial.
JACK: How did you guess? hahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Maybe because they didn’t think up anything beneficial? You’re a laugh a minute.
FANATICAL MIKE SAID: But they contributed great idea to the human condition.
JACK: What great ideas? Don’t do Google. If they did something beneficial you should be able to just tell me. I’ll know if you cheated.
FANATICAL MIKE SAID: Christianity has contributed nothing but robotic people and idiotic comments like you, Stalin, and this functional illiterate Savage have here.
JACK: We’ve been over your ability to write a decent sentence already, but YOU call ME illiterate. Oh, I better get back to my robotic duties here!
FANATICAL MIKE SAID: Hell, I’ve wasted enough time on you 3 –
JACK: When I posted as “Nutcase Deluxe” I told you that you shouldn’t bother. yet you went full steam ahead and demonstrated your ability to spew and spew your hatred, anger, and vitriol without being able to successfully document anything you said or use any correct grammar.
FANATICAL MIKE SAID: And Stalin, I’m proud to be a libtard – libcom or whatever your very original and thigh slapping term is. But to put it better, I am whatever you are not. Always, no matter what the topic.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA You left yourself wide open on that one.
FANATICAL MIKE SAID: Savage you just might be the dumbest person I’ve ever read on this forum – ridicule, sarcasm, arrogance and ignorance –
JACK: You forgot malicious, absurd, and intolerant. Sure got your goat though!!!! hahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Thanks Mike, I haven’t laughed so hard in weeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don Latimer says:
“The easiest way to protect ourselves is to claim that the other side has no morals.”
I don’t recall making such a claim. I said that your belief in morals is a contradiction to your disbelief in God. Can’t you grasp that profound statement?
I said that your belief in morals is a contradiction to your disbelief in God. — Jack Savage on August 6, 2008 at 5:34 pm
Hello, Jack, you silly savage. I can see you’ve been trying really hard to think about morality, and I have some questions about your comment above:
1) Which god?
2) Which morals?
3) How can the existence or non-existence of any god affect the existence or non-existence of morals?
Jack:
Oops! Your ignorance is showing yet again (kind of like a plumber’s crack when he’s bending over). Buddha is not a god in any religion, so what does a dead historical figure have to do with tsunamis?
Sorry, Zack, if I stole your thunder, but I couldn’t resist answering! What we have in Jack is yet another Christian who knows diddly squat about other religions, and is a poor representative of his own.
Jack,
Buddhists are atheists. I’m neither. If you want to know about the religion, consult a believer or expert in the subject.
I didn’t study tsunamis in college, but a climatologist could help you with the causes and effects of tsunamis. If you want to know about them, again, consult the experts. Opinions are like asterisks; every keyboard has them!
Not everyone worships gods or looks to them for answers to questions of science or philosophy.
You appear to have an inquisitive mind, which is refreshing for a Christian, but you seem clueless as to where to go for answers.
I hope this helps.
Austin,
I appear to be having a one-way conversation in the last two entries. One might accuse me of praying! Perhaps there are gremlins in my computer and you aren’t censoring our dialogue.
Jack, your comments disappear when I add mine. Perhaps if you apologize to Austin for your earlier rudeness and play by the rules of civility, our host will let you back in this sandbox!
If they are atheists why are they praying to a dead person? — Jack Savage on August 24, 2008 at 4:06 pm
I don’t know — why do Christians pray to a dead person?
OK since you don’t think Buddha has anything to do with the tsunamies do you think it was Moloch or Gaia who caused them? Maybe it was Neptune? What do you think?
How about a sudden motion of the ocean floor?
http://geology.com/articles/tsunami-geology.shtml