From: "Dave"
Subject: None

Maybe, you are right and there is no God. If that is true I rather be deluded and wrong. I just can't picture there not be something like a God. I'am using God in the biggest sense of the word. I must believe in the Infinite and Absolute. I have to believe in a Ultimate Reality which I call God or whatever name you want to call it.

This perhaps sums up Dave's general attitude - and it's very unfortunate, I must confess. I really don't understand how a person can say that they would rather be deluded and wrong if their beliefs make them happy - and I'm not entirely sure that Dave is correct in this self-assessment. Would he really rather be deluded and wrong in believing that he is rich, powerful, and famous?

People who really adopt such a course are often put on medication and/or given institutional care - and for good reasons. Granted, sometimes reality is harsh and unpleasant, but escaping reality for something more pleasing is only very rarely the best option. I would be willing to accept that there are situations where we shouldn't object to someone doing it - but for most people in most circumstances, it is objectionable.

It is interesting to see Dave moving from "God" to "Ultimate Reality." I believe in reality, but it's tough to know what Dave thinks he is communicating by "Ultimate Reality" that isn't already communicated by "reality." Does capitalization add something? Are there two realities, one being plain-old "reality" and the other being "Ultimate"? And if there is, what is further added by calling it "God"? It seems to me that people attach extra adjectives and labels to concepts without really thinking through what they mean or simply what they are doing.

I was wondering if atheist are absolutely certain their is no God. Because if I understand correctly atheist believe only in science. What I mean is they believe in only the natural world. I was wondering what if science discovers there is a God. What then, are you willing to submit to the fact. How much evidence is needed!!! I don't think we can prove everything.

Whether an atheist can be absolutely certain that there is no "God" depends upon how the term is defined - and in Dave's case, that could be difficult to figure out. With some definitions of "God," we can be absolutely sure that it doesn't exist because it has logically contradictory or otherwise impossible characteristics. To believe in the existence of such a being is perverse and it is unreasonable to expect anyone else follow such insanity.

If science discovers that there is a "God," then it will be necessary to believe that it exists - although I can imagine that there will be some questions as to whether and why the label "God" is necessary for whatever it is that is discovered. If, for example, it were discovered that our universe were created as some sort of lab experiment for a student project, and we aren't even an important by-product of the experiment, should we really consider that student "God"? Some might, but I think that those who don't wouldn't be acting unreasonably.

Do you deny the Infinite too. infinite space and time. It just seems atheist deny everything unless it fits perfectly in their little world. The greatest thinkers believed in somekind of God. Einstein had a cosmic religious feeling towards all existence. That sounds pretty mystical to me. Johann Karl Friedrich Gauss believed in God. He was the greatest mathematician. Sir Isaac Newton believed in God. Copernicus,Kepler and Galileo believed in God. If these geniuses can believe in something like God. Call it God or whatever is it a lack of intelligence on their part or what. If they can believe and these men were the best, why can't you?

I don't know what "the Infinite" is - I understand the concept of "infinity," but the capitalized noun form of the word could mean just about anything. I don't believe that time and space are infinite, but I do believe that there is an infinite number of numbers. So, do I believe in "the Infinite"? Who knows...

Dave's "argument from authority" isn't too surprising. It is true that some of the greatest minds in history have been theists - but since most people in history have been theists, that observation is neither surprising nor revealing. If I listed some great thinkers who were atheists, would Dave suddenly have a good reason to stop believing in his god? Of course not. At most, he might have a reason to give atheism a close look, but in the end atheism stands or falls on its own, regardless of whether any great thinkers have been atheists or not.

The same is true of theism. The presence of great thinkers who have been theists might give us reason to take a closer look at theism, but that is all - in the end, theism stands or falls based upon the arguments offered for it, not on the presence of smart people who accept those arguments.

I emphasized "might" because we have to remember that some of the greatest thinkers in history have also been racists, sexists, and so forth. Would that give us a reason to take a closer look at racism and sexism? I doubt that many people would say "yes" - they would recognize that even smart people can be misled by beliefs common in their society, not realizing that those beliefs are very wrong. When you are brought up to believe an idea that just about everyone else you ever meet or hear of also believes, it's tough to take a contrary position.

The same could be the case with theism.

More selections from the Agnosticism / Atheism Mailbag...