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This is a common myth repeated by Christians who want the government to promote and endorse their religion, but it's bizarre and I have trouble figuring out how anyone could sincerely believe it. Where is the logical connection between the premise 'the government is not endorsing any religion' and the conclusion 'therefore, the government is endorsing atheism'? Even if one mistakenly assumes that atheism is the same as irreligion, this conclusion does not logically follow from the premise.


Read Article: Myth: Atheism is Promoted By Church/State Separation & Religious Neutrality

April 10, 2007 at 2:58 pm
(1) John Hanks says:

Union through separation. It is almost always a good idea. Religion is not a commodity or an idol as most fanatics believe.

January 16, 2010 at 6:59 pm
(2) JEff says:

Suffering is subjective. Your definition of suffering is not Gods.

January 16, 2010 at 7:09 pm
(3) Austin Cline says:

Suffering is subjective.

There is of course a subjective element, but adult human beings have something called “empathy” which allows them to recognize the suffering in others.

Apparently, your god lacks this basic capacity.

Your definition of suffering is not Gods.

OK, what is your god’s definition of “suffering”?

January 16, 2010 at 11:38 pm
(4) Jc says:

Mr. Cline, I have a few questions for you:

As an atheist do you have any absolute “moral” values? If so, where did those come from? When did the notion of “right” and “wrong” first appear in man’s mind? What is your conscience?If you are in fact “godless” then i would assume that you believe that man “Evovled” from “something”. If that is true is not man merely an animal? If man is merely an animal destined to live and die a meaningless and purposeless existence, what is the point of existing at all? Were you born through random chance? If there is in fact not any “god” does that not mean that all morals, values, and sytems of belief are relative? Why are people the only sentient life froms that can transcend time? Why can no other “animal” do that? Is it just by “chance” that you and I exist? Is it just by chance that water is the only substance that is less dense when it is frozen than when it is liquid (which by the way makes life as “we know it” possible)? If you would stop to examine such things perhaps you would reconsider your suppossed “godlessness”. (And just because i am curious, are you homosexual?)

January 17, 2010 at 4:47 am
(5) Joseph says:

Heh, wow, that’s every contrived “argument” religious people use in one neat little list. And to top it off, JC questioned Austin’s sexuality, as if it has any relevance at all!

I can answer some of those. Firstly, yes, morality is indeed relative. Morality is nothing more than the standards a society places upon those who live in it. As society changes, so does it’s morals. There are a few things that are considered “universally moral” like not killing, raping, or stealing. Not because of any divine decree, but because a society could not function if people caused harm to one another with impunity. Other things, like masturbation, drinking, or women showing their ankles are not a determent to society when done in moderation (can’t have women showing their ankles all the time!)

Secondly, man is an animal. Our biology is the same as every other simian, every other mammal, every other terrestrial species, every other vertebrate. That’s how evolution works. As for your assertion that we’re somehow unique for being able to “transcend time” (I’ll assume you meant “perceive”) we’re not. Many other species has the ability to remember events and plan ahead. Dolphins, elephants, chimps, etc are all highly intelligent and self aware. But really, we’re still discovering new aspects of the animal kingdom every day. We haven’t even discovered every species that has every lived. Who knows, there might have been dozens of species that developed human like intellect but went extinct before they could reach their full potential. Mankind surely had a few close calls, including the Toba catastrophe which reduced the total number of humans to only ten thousand 70,000 years ago.

As for why water is less dense as a solid than liquid? I dunno. You ever think that life adapted to work with those properties instead of water just happening to be perfect for life? Things only seem incredible when you think small. Step back, look at the whole picture, and you’ll see the vastness makes it very likely that things would fall into place on their own. Billions of stars in a galaxy with billions of galaxies in the observed universe, each and every one the result of things just falling into place.

Religious types often claim us godless are arrogant, I don’t buy that. If anything, it’s the religious who are arrogant. They believe in a universe as vast as the one we live in, one species of primate somehow has been favored by an invisible, omnipotent being who created everything from energy, mater, and the physical laws that drive them just for us. No no, we humble ourselves before a cosmos that is completely indifferent to life existing at all, much less ours.

January 18, 2010 at 6:34 am
(6) Eupraxsophy says:

It’s a shame that some theists don’t understand that the seperation of church and state is in part to their advantage too. How would they like it if they had to pay taxes by no longer being tax exempt? What if the goverment endorsed Islam? There are some country that do. Like Iran for example. Instead of having a president we would have a Supreme Leader to tell us how to live our lives. Where would our rights go? Down the toilet, that’s where.

The seperation of church and state means mutual respect for all. It is this respect for one another that makes us united and gives to some freedom of religion and for others freedom from religion.

If you show someone respect and they do not, they have already disrespected themselves.

January 18, 2010 at 7:20 am
(7) Eupraxsophy says:

In response to Jc,

WTF are you talking about? Are you retarded, and have to wear a special helmet? Are you unable to think for yourself or what? Or is it that you allow someone else preach their propaganda to you, and you bite into it hook, line, and sinker?

Truth would be a good moral value to base the others on. Truth has no weakness and integrity is it’s strength. And admiration of the truth is in vain if it does not inspire us to be brave in facing the truths about ourselves.

And there is a difference between being curious about someone being a homosexual, and being suspicious of someone being homosexual. It is the difference between someone being naive as opposed to someone being ignorant.

Be objective to that which you are naive to as opposed to being ignorant to that which you are doubtful of and weigh that which is given consideration to, with truth.

Make a life for yourself by being conserned about others and having compassion for them. And judge yourself first and know your weaknesses, before you see theirs. Humility will give you the wisdom to see both the ugliness and beauty that resides in truth.
Then you will see just how beautiful others can be by seeing how ugly you have become.
Deception is the wisdom of pride and humility is the wisdom of truth, and love is the essence of all virtues.

January 24, 2010 at 10:20 am
(8) Pimpinello says:

Those wonderful people who have to use ad personam arguments to satisfy their hatred-based “curiosity” are not accessible to any reason. They must die out. The only thing we can do at the moment is to ridicule them. Their children might then turn away from them and join the ranks of skeptics. Perhaps I am too pessimistic but I never encountered a person with firm religious beliefs I could persuade to reconsider his convictions.
Where I live now (J) there is no problem with the separation of Religion and State. This is legally settled and the transgressions are performed in secrecy in the form of huge donations. But the Supreme Court did condemn these practices severely.
Where I used to live (A) the problem still existed 40 years ago when there were 89% Catholics and 10% Protestants but nowadays there are only a little bit under 60% and the beautiful church buildings are becoming more and more sites of touristic entertainment.

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