Christmas has long been a popular holiday in America -- largely due to the predominance of Christianity. Should it, however, remain an official government holiday? After all, the religious holidays of other faiths are not declared official holidays, so isn't this a form of favoritism towards Christianity? What this comes down to is a question over whether Christmas can/should be treated as a secular holiday (alongside whatever religious meaning which individuals might invest in it personally).
If Christmas is necessarily and inherently a religious holiday, then the government can't really get entangled in it -- which means the government cannot make it an official holiday with time off. If, however, Christmas is also a secular holiday without any necessary religious aspects, then the government is free to treat it like other secular holidays such as Memorial Day or the Fourth of July.
If Christmas were treated as a religious holiday, then some Christians would get uptight over the idea of not automatically having Christmas off from work, faced now with the prospect of actually having to use one of their own vacation or personal days in order to be home with their families. I can sympathize with this reaction, but what they fail to realize is that this is exactly the situation which has always faced the members of other religions. I wonder how many Christians have given any thought to how they can expect to have their major holidays automatically off while others have to use personal or vacation days -- assuming they can get off at all.
The status quo has traditionally been one of privileging Christians at the expense of other religions -- and since that privileging has persisted for so long, too many Christians have come to expect it as their right. They expect their holidays to be given priority over any other religion's holy days. A disturbingly similar situation has existed with every other case of Christianity losing its special, officially sanctioned status: school prayer, bible reading in school, etc. If our government treats Christian holidays like it treats other religious holidays, I won't be upset.
On the other hand, if Christmas is treated as a secular holiday, then Christians would be happy that they could continue to benefit, but wouldn't that be something of a pyrrhic victory? Christians who are most invested in the so-called "War on Christmas" would not be pleased, nor would any Christians who dislike how secular and commercialized Christmas has become. They can either preserve the practical aspect of a traditional privilege (days off from work) or they can preserve what they perceive as the Christian nature of Christmas. Which they choose will say a lot about what they really value.
I must admit, I’m a christian at heart, but we do not celebrate Christmas as Jesus’s birth. We celebrate it as a day of giving. Doesn’t everyone? I believe that it should remain a national holiday. Sure most Christians celebrate it that way, but let them celebrate it the way they want to. Other people do all sorts of things on that holiday and to take that away, there would be no christmas break for kids from school or no special gatherings of freinds and family once a year. It’s just something to think about, “what if there was no christmas?”
Excuse me, Austin, but I need to send you this message on a mostly unrelated subject. Some theists have argued that it is mathematically unlikely that we would come to exist without divine intervention (we are “mathematical improbabilites). I was pretty sure you had a page responding to this which I read and want to read again, but I can’t find it now. How do I get to it?
411314,
Try:
http://atheism.about.com/library/weekly/aa021799.htm
I am an atheist but I believe Christmas should be a government holiday. Why? Because most Americans are Christians. Government is run by paid citizens, appointed, hired, and elected. Government agencies could not compete with the private world if a requirement of working for the government would be to work on Christmas. Market forces and common sense say employees are off on Christmas, not necessarily because the businesses or government agencies are respecting the religious meaning of Christmas, but simply because the vast majority of employees want to be off that day. Comparing the act of closing government offices on Christmas to school prayer is invalid. The former is a matter of good business sense; the latter is resepcting the establishment of religion and is not accetpable. Indeed, courthouses are closed on Christmas day, but they don’t display Christmas trees or nativity scenes.
I think the question should be put differently. It’s not a matter of whether Christmas is or can be secular, but rather, are there enough secular elements to Christmas to justify making it a public holiday independently of its religious elements. If it can’t clear that threshold without its religious elements, it’s out. If it can, it’s in.
Solution: Abolish all the federal days off and give everyone that many days of extra annual leave. So instead of the standard 14 days off you get 20. If you want to take off on Talk Like a Pirate Day, you can!
I believe we should rename it the winter soltice and continue as a holiday.Also in spring it should be the
spring solstice;summer,fall,etc.
Many non-Chrisitans celebrate Christmas. It is likely given off because most people would ask for the day off and thus most places would not be able to function properly and close for the day.
One thing bugs me about all these polls: if you don’t know/don’t care, don’t vote. Why waste time voting if you really don’t care?
The way I look at it is, “the annual tradition of giving gifts”,,, mostly for children.
I like Todd’s idea: If we eliminate Christmas from the list of federal holidays, we should still get a day off at some point… I wouldn’t want to give up a day away from work…
I say we go back to the traditional form of celebrating Christmas in America: by attacking Hessian troops encamped at Trenton, New Jersey!
Voted ‘don’t know,’ but meant ‘don’t care.’
You make an interesting point. But why limit it to Christmas. After all, aren’t Saturday and Sunday the sabbath days of various religions, e.g.,Jewish and Seventh Day Adventists on Saturday and most Christians on Sunday? I suppose that we could also consider observation of them as tributes to Saturn and the Sun. I think maybe I’d rather honor Wodin and Thor.
On a related issue WTOP News in Washington DC reports: “Starting next week, Metro will roll out a set of advertisements on its buses sponsored by the American Humanist Association (AHA), a non-theist group. The ads will show a picture of a fake Santa Claus and read: ‘Why believe in a god? Just be good for goodness’ sake.’” http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=30&sid=1515427
I agree with Jon. The reason why Xmas is a paid holiday in which government offices (and many other businesses) are closed is that if they were open most people would want to be off that day. It is also a cost-cutting measure to close that day. The reasoning behind is no different from why a purely secular holiday such as New Years Day finds government offices and most businesses closed.
As another Pastafarian, I’m looking forward to every Friday off. That’s our holiest of holy days.
Like the old Primus song said “If Christmas didn’t come this year, Who would cry the loudest tear?…The child or the store?” Xmas is such a big commercial racket, I don’t think Big Buisness would allow the government to cancel Xmas’ holiday status. Lets face it, Xmas has so many pagan elements to it I don’t see how Xtians can really claim it as their own. I am taking it back from the infidels…and declaring Xmas a secular humanist holiday. So enjoy the Holidays everyone…and remember, Dec. 25th is a perfect excuse to pick your employer’s pocket.
Let’s not confuse holidays with cost-cutting. If your employer doesn’t make more money than they pay you EVERY day you work (on average, of course), they should get rid of you. That said, humans need recuperation time, and what better celebration than the start of longer days? I could see a Dec 25 holiday every year as long as it’s not labeled Christmas. Hanukkah moves around, so, just like Easter, it’s not a good choice for a holiday – no other reason.
The celebration of winter solstice predates all forms of monotheism, and as such is a tradition worth keeping.
Would any of you who support a national holiday because “it’s the majority” also support its abolition if that majority shifts (as many of us hope it will)? Thought not…
Let’s get our solstice day back from the christians.
Yes. Just lay off the religious trappings in govt. settings.
“Celebrate” and “holiday” refer to the commemoration of some event. What event do atheists celebrate on that date? Macy’s Day? No matter how you slice it, xmas has roots in religion. Atheists celebrating xmas is not merely inane, but shows weak conviction.
Atheists should celebrate real, important events, like the date of publication of “Origin of Species” or the date of Watson and Crick’s discovery. Such celebration would show far more logic than coopting the smarmy, maudlin commercialism of xmas. Show some spine, atheists.
To quote Malcolm X, before there can be a revolution in society, there must be revolutions in the minds of its people. As long as we have that holiday we will have religion, which should be ridiculed and scorned out of existence for the harm it causes.
I like Todd’s idea, but where I live many people don’t get paid holidays, sick days, or vacations at all. At least some rural employers grant a day’s pay for Christmas, though.
While I grew up in a very fundamentalist family that continues to be militantly Christian, my wife, children, and I long ago rejected religion. However, we look forward to Christmas. When the children were still at home, it was a day everyone could spend at home. Now that being together means a ten hour drive for some of us, Christmas is one of the few times we can manage to get all the children and grand children together. Perhaps I’m selfish, but I’d hate to give that up.
In today’s Fox “News” atmosphere, any attempt to change to a more rational and Constitutional secular holiday would fail. I think we should keep the idea out there, but we shouldn’t stake anyone’s future on the hope just yet. We need to remember that people rally when they think they’re being attacked, and reason too often goes out the window.
Family. Love. Whatever they want.
Many of those roots are pagan. So, Christians celebrating it must have weak conviction — right?
And you’re ignoring the fact that most of the aspects of modern Christmas celebrations aren’t religious. So, why do Christians partake in them?
Some may do so.
Curious that you don’t think celebrating things like family and love are “real” or “important.” That says something about you.
Christmas–a day of giving? Oh, please, I am so weary of hearing that. Why do some need a specific day set aside to remind them to share? It is a day for wall street to tally their profits made from selling mostly useless, unnecessary and wasteful crap to people which was specifically marketed to them with that line about “the spirit of giving.”
>Atheists should celebrate real, important events, like the date of publication of “Origin of Species” or the date of Watson and Crick’s discovery.
1. Ever heard of Darwin Day?
2. Just to note that atheism is not reliant upon any “defense” against Xianity. The lack of evidence supporting Christianity is sufficient to reject acceptance of the claim that their god exists. An atheist could be utterly scientifically illiterate and still assess the claims of Xianity as baseless. So, there really is no external event or person that is connected to atheism–although some atheists may individually consider some things relevant to their atheism.
I might, for example, be thankful to those historians who provided information about how the Bible came to exist in its current form. For me, personally, this dealt a death-blow to my Christianity (although I remained a theist for many years afterward). However, to assert that such information is a requirement of “atheism” or for “atheists” fails to grasp that atheism is the rejection of a claim due to insufficient basis upon which to justify acceptance of the claim.
Austin, paganism is an ancient religion now supplanted in popular Western culture by Christianity. You did not address why atheists would choose to celebrate love and family on a “traditional” religious holiday rather than another date. (Love and family as “events” begs the question; we should also celebrate jobs, friendship, dress-down Fridays, or lower interest rates). It is as incongruous for an atheist to celebrate Christmas as it would be to celebrate Ramadan or Seder or Passover. One must have courage in one’s convictions. Society must break with religion to rid itself of religion. Thus communists banned religious holidays, including Christmas. Atheists who celebrate Christmas are cognitive dissonance cop-outs.
But it still exists and is still followed.
You didn’t ask, and one basic answer is: convenience.
You mean “raises” the question, and I don’t see how the question is raised because celebrating love and family is precisely to emphasize how and why they are more important the another good things in our lives.
Only if one assumes that it is necessarily a religious holiday.
Only if one assumes that it is a religious holiday. This is an example of “begging the question.”
Christmas is also for some one of the worst days that there is. I work in a homeless clinic and I see how those who are less fortunate hate Christmas.
It is to them a constant reminder of how they are
the ones who are without. If there truely is a
Christmas spirit it should be that we who are blessed share that blessing to others first and let them know that they are not forgotten. Perhaps it
could be a day of humility and concern without any
religious dogma attached. Humility gives one the
wisdom to see both the ugliness and beauty that
reside in truth.
Austin, your general principle, then, is that one might accept and celebrate any holiday just by changing its name and pretending it’s something else. Why not make a new merry athiest holiday with its own, unambiguous name?
I note that communism successfully removed most of religion and its holiday, so it quite simple to get rid those holidays since they are grease for the wheels of religion.
Thanks. I shall use your comments to help elevate, improve, and unify my position.
Since that isn’t what’s happening here, that’s not a principle I’m using.
Some atheists do.
Except you don’t seem to have much of a position yet, aside from personal attacks against atheists who aren’t behaving as you think they should. If you really want to “improve” your position, why not invest a little time into addressing the points I make instead of attributing to me “principles” that I have never expressed?
I understand the need for the federal government to compete with the private sector by allowing certain holidays, but why do they need to be on specific dates? They already have a system in place to award time off that can be used one year from the date awarded just like annual leave. Why not allow a set amount of hours for religious observance for employees to use as they see fit. Then we can use the time to observe a religious holiday of our choosing or simply use it to celebrate family and good will at a time that is most convenient for us.
My family and I do acknowledge and celebrate the birth of Christ at Christmas, but none of us believe he came into this world on what is now December 25th, in the year 1. Some Christians actually buy cakes, candles, and write “Happy Birthday Jesus,” in icing on top of the cake. Then they sing, “Happy Birthday Dear Jesus,” and blow out the candles. When I first heard of this practice, I asked, “Exactly how many candles go on the cake?” And as for myself, Christmas is a time for remembering John Lennon as well.
I tend to see the holiday as secular, not religious, and I believe most in our country view it that way too, whether they admit it or not. Were it not so, our retailers wouldn’t be so 4Q-obsessed. It’s a Hallmark holiday, and the biggest of them all. That’s why enclosed shopping malls were invented — cold-weather spending.
I believe the Supreme Court would have a hard time getting rid of Christmas as a national holiday based on a church & state argument, saying, for example, that government employees must work Christmas day if it falls on a weekday. Santa Claus and spending, Christmas trees and decorations, getting family and friends together,enjoying nonreligious Christmas music. Try taking all of that away from people, and the retailers. It is also for many, a wonderful season of love for one another. As for the Christian, it shouldn’t matter whether or not we are allowed a government-sanctioned day to celebrate the birth of Christ. This can be done in fellowship with other Christians in a church, or with those whom we cherish in our homes, or in the quietude of one’s own heart.
It is funny how the world views Christmas. I as a Christian celebrate Christmas everyday. I do not need a holiday. Especially the worlds view of what that should be. Christians are not the problem with Christmas, the world view is the problem. Is it really about marketing, selling, and capitolizing or is it about giving, especially to those with less? Any holiday whether it be Christmas or St. Patrick’s Day ought to be about something real, should it not? Or do we just let the enemy sneak in and destroy us all? The world is having trouble with just recognizing one day a year to give the gift of love. If you don’t believe Jesus loves you, then just love the rest of us, after all thats all he wanted.
Seriously? I cannot believe the poll is virtually 50/50! We must have many xians voting. Please tell me that’s so! Christmas as a government holiday is a violation of “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion”, period. You can rationalize it any way you wish, but it will still be rationalization!
Why be caught on the horns of dilemma. It can be both religious and secular. Government only need allow a holiday for employees and has a right to recognize traditions without making them religious. Besides it is good for business and employment, for overeating, and for drinking. People can use the ancient practice of doing things to cheer the darkest time of year and looking toward the rebirth of spring in whatever legal way they prefer. So here’s to Xmas, Christmas, Holiday, or whatever multi-religious and muti-secular observance is preferred. Sing your songs, raise you glasses and enjoy! Realize we also have many Sundays off ! Learn how to count to 2 and beyond, many things are multi-semantic and multi-entity.
Many here are asking why choose the date given to Xmas as a holiday and not create new atheist holidays?
The simple answer is that if a holiday is not universal it becomes impossible to coordinate gatherings of family and friends.
As an atheist I see it as a celebration of the Winter Solstice which really has no religious meaning, though celebrated by almost all religions ancient and modern.
America has the fewest holidays of any country 6 if you are very lucky. With half of them falling on a weekend we get very little time away from work. Many don’t get more than a week vacation and don’t get any personal or “sick” days. So I support keeping it from that standpoint alone.
Tod; Yee put a flickenin en me heart to hoist the Rodger on the 19th o September I raise a grog to yee matee. Put wind en ur sail fer me ladee n I be downin a froth fer yee as well.
One last note; the Xmas holidays are also the time with the highest suicide rate.
Every christmas there is some debate here in Australia about whether it is ‘appropriate’ in a multi-ethnic and multicultural society to have nativity scenes and carols in stores and schools.
I cannot but suppress a wry smile at this ‘debate’ about christmas traditions, given the underlying assumption that “Australia is a christian country.” As with most slogans, this one seems to compound several ideas in a simplistic — and, its proponents hope — ‘memorable’ fashion.
Firstly, Australia is not a country for ALL christians, but only for those whose christian heritage originates in Western Europe. We are granted public holidays for ‘christmas’ and ‘easter,’ but not only do non-christians — including our own Aboriginal people — have to ‘apply’ to take holidays to celebrate THEIR spiritual events, using valuable Recreation Leave to do so, but members of the various orthodox christian churches must do the same, because for them, ‘christmas’ and ‘easter’ may fall on different dates.
The solution is to only mandate National/State holidays as PUBLIC holidays and grant everyone a set number of days to celebrate religious holidays. Of course, we would then have this peculiarly Australian debate as to whether these holidays should be paid or unpaid, but the Separation of Church and State will never be complete until this is done.
Secondly, many of the ‘traditions’ of christmas are not christian at all, but ‘pagan,’ christianity having been very good at assimilating the traditions of other cultures before exterminating them. Indeed the very idea of an end-of-year festival goes back beyond the Egyptians, and is found around the world, though sometimes not with pleasant associations. So, one can celebrate ‘christmas’ with food and drink, presents, trees, Santa and reindeer, without ANY reference to christianity.
I am a seasonal work for the government and am also Jewish and after all these years why does the government only recognize Xmas. I have yet to see displays of any other religion/belief. How many people get holiday pay for working Sunday? No one does for working Saturday!
I believe that either we recognize all beliefs or we don’t recognize any.
KISS. As an atheist, I don’t care if it’s Saturnalia, Solstice, Yule, Christmas or Kwanza. Working people are being ground to the nub (those still lucky enough to be working), vacation here is relatively in short supply and, like Thoreau said, most men(people) live lives of quiet desperation. Any time off with pay, or break in the routine, is welcome in my book. It’s a welcome opportunity to lay in with impunity an extra brandy ration, or two, or three-and in most years, a chance to have sex in the morning and enjoy the afterglow instead of looking for the keys to the car.
I hear that Christmas has become increasingly secular, and that’s how I celebrate it, but it’s inherited from Christian culture. What about secular Jews or secular members of families that are a part of a not-so-Christian culture and you want to celebrate your holiday, there’s probably a major holiday during the winter, about giving or both, so those people still find a way to celebrate with their family and community through a secular cultural lense. But if only Christmas is seen as a viable candidate for a secular holiday around winter, then those secular people don’t get to easily take time off with their families on those holidays. Holidays aren’t just about religious versus non-religious, there’s a mix of cultures in a pluralistic society and it’s unfair to assume that everyone should live on the same schedule. I checked the “Christmas is religious” option, because it best aligned with my view that “freedom of religion” implies more than just religion (Freedom of though/politics/philosophy/ethics/culture/principles) and that the government shouldn’t pick which cultural signifier indicator they should officially recognize.
@James Jackson – Isaac Newton’s Birthday.
Happy Holidays!
As much as I would hate to lose a paid holiday, I still think that making a national holdiay out of Christmas is unconstitutional. Maybe we could have two days off for New Year’s instead.
I’m an atheist, but I’m also very much a product of my “Western-Christian” upbringing. I don’t feel like I’m “letting down the atheist community” just because I still enjoy celebrating Christmas secularly. It’s still one of my favorite times of the year.
When I left religion, I felt so relieved to be out of all the silly little rules and regulations — as atheists, why should we impose new ones on one another? I don’t care what holidays other atheists might celebrate, because they’re completely free to do whatever they like.
As far as whether or not it should be considered a holiday in the US, I say sure, why not? Most people in this country are culturally Christian, even if they’re not actually Christian. It’s part of our history and heritage. I don’t want government buildings to put up nativity scenes, but I think it makes sense to keep it labeled as a federal holiday.
My thoughts, as more an agnostic atheist…it should be secular. Alas, can’t really change it all now, and I dislike any religious elements in the job or government elements. I think there are enough secular elements for this, and the date is a fixed date as well. I tend to love Christmas, but I also love Halloween, and both days just as joyous and full of traditions for me…and both purely secular. You can add the religious element to either I suppose, or you can leave them alone. But I do like the one day a year set aside to give family gifts, that one day most everyone has off to be with family and well, the decorations and sweets are grand too. Call it what you like, I’m happy with Winter Holiday (and is what I send out on holiday cards). Not sure if I added anything to the conversation though…
The roving holidays idea sounds good on paper but would be highly impractical in reality. Just like New Year’s Day we need a day off that is (mostly) observed by everyone’s employer/educational institution. There’s a good reason the Pagans, Christians, Mithraisians, etc. chose this particular time of the year. The origins should fade into obscurity where they belong. In fact they already are, and they will continue to do so until only the most bookish historians will even be aware that Christmas was originally (at least as far as America is concerned) supposed to be a celebration of Jesus Christ’s (who the heck is that?) birth.
This seems pretty simple to me: have a national holiday for that time of year (the 12/25) and officially label it the holiday season. Private citizens can now feel free to call it or add to it whatever they want and celebrate it the way they want. Everybody gets at least one day off or at least as much as they get now. Christians can call it Christmas. others can call it winter solstice or call it whatever they might want to celebrate for themselves. Can you imagine the diversity and possibilities of parties and celebrations that would be yours choose from? This may be a great way to enrich Americana society and would still be good for business.
There seems to be a lot of argument over the date and year when Jesus was supposed to have been born. However there is no argument that the 25th. December was the Roman Winter Solstice.
If Christians want to celebrate with Nativity Scenes, Christmas Carols, Christmas Trees and attendance at church; so what?
Let us all enjoy the Christmas Holiday in whatever way we think fit.
Has anyone objected to any of that?
The objections are made over government support and endorsement of Christian religious celebrations.
I grew up in an atheist household and we celebrated Christmas. What would happen to santa claus? ?Without christmas i mean – isn’t it wholly commercial – Rhudolf and Frosty and all that stuff have little to do with Christianity. Certainly a Yule log would be more Christian (pagan actually but i digress) than a Christmas tree – really the Christmas tree couldn’t have come about because of Jesus could it? Perhaps i’m off on my history of how it all came about but it seems that along the way Christmas became just as much if not more a secular holiday than a religious one. I’ve even known people who are Jewish who celebrate Christmas in addition to Chanakah because it is just such a universal thing – it is celebrated EVERYWHERE it seems mostly not because of religious reasons – it’s more about gift giving than anything else. Perhaps a family would have a prayer before their feast but that’s about it for most people – i’ve known not a soul who studies the bible or does some kind of Christian “ritual” (there are decorations – the manger scene but no rituals). Is Caroling about Christianity? I really don’t know – the line between the two – secular and holy has become too blurred. I would be heartbroken if Christmas disappeared although i would be ok with us calling it Christmas Solstice Day and having it on the 22nd and be a national holiday instead and then relegate the “real” Christmas to the 25th and give the 22nd off as a workday as opposed to the 25th. Is that a way to resolve it?
I agree with Pujjuut:
People can celebrate Christmas the way they want! I look it as “the annual tradition of giving gifts”,,, mostly for children, even adults in north America.