1. Religion & Spirituality

Discuss in my forum

If you are an atheist who was once a Catholic, you should consider having yourself excommunicated. There are few more definitive and public steps you can take on behalf of the rejection of religion. Unless and until you are excommunicated, you are still counted as a Catholic. Why would you allow them to regard you as even provisionally Catholic? What are you afraid of? Do you still have doubts about believing in God and are keeping your options open in case you want to return to the Church?

Read Article: Get Excommunicated! How To Get Excommunicated From the Catholic Church

Comments
April 24, 2009 at 11:16 am
(1) † says:

You don’t know what You’re talking about!

April 24, 2009 at 12:06 pm
(2) Darren B says:

Ineresting how this shows your inconsitancy with atheism not being based on faith. Doubt implies faith.

April 24, 2009 at 1:13 pm
(3) Ned B. says:

Darren B., I’m not sure how doubt implies faith. Also, (you may be a recent reader of Austin’s site and not know this), atheism is just the absence of theism. This appears, for a variety of reasons, to be the most accurate definition of atheism and the one that Austin consistently and explicitly uses. I’m not sure how an absence of theism (even if you think that there are no gods but are not sure, hence doubts) implies faith.

April 24, 2009 at 2:02 pm
(4) Darren B says:

absence of theism does not do away with the problem. Let me demonstrate:

Theism is belief in God (gods)
Absence in this means you do not believe.

If you do not believe, you making a definitive statement about the existence of God. And when you do this without absolute knowledge, you must exercise faith.

Doubt implies faith because if you can doubt something, then it must be something that you can express faith in.

April 24, 2009 at 2:10 pm
(5) Darren B says:

Ned also said:
Iím not sure how an absence of theism (even if you think that there are no gods but are not sure, hence doubts) implies faith.

-if you doubt that God does not exist, then you are not technically an atheist.

April 24, 2009 at 2:38 pm
(6) Darren B says:

I’m sorry. I feel that I have to make this point stronger because there is so much confusion among Austin’s disciples.

If you say, for instance, there are no grasshoppers on Mars. That is a definitive statement that would require faith if you have not searched every square inch of the planet Mars.

Let’s assume we call the belief of Grasshoppers living on Mars Grasshopperism. And since you do not believe this you are an agrasshopperist.

Just because you have neatly defined yourself as being someone who lives without grasshoppers, doesn’t change the fact that you made a definitive statement about the existence of grasshoppers on Mars.

April 24, 2009 at 2:44 pm
(7) Austin Cline says:

Ineresting how this shows your inconsitancy with atheism not being based on faith. †

Feel free to show how.

Doubt implies faith.

Any time you think you can support this, you’re welcome to do so.

If you do not believe, you making a definitive statement about the existence of God. †

I’ve already linked you to an explanation of why “not believe” isn’t the same as “believe not,” much less “deny.” For you to keep repeating the contrary without any sort of engagement with that explanation is, in my opinion, little more than trolling.

Trolling is not permitted here.

So your only options here are to either seriously engage the issues, arguments, and explanations that you have been told about or to stop posting on your own, because continued trolling will lead to a loss of your posting privileges. I’m done letting you repeat the same false assertions while pretending no one has corrected you.

Iím sorry. I feel that I have to make this point stronger because there is so much confusion among Austinís disciples.

What you actually need to apologize for is massive, deliberate ignorance. The definition of atheism used here is the one found in most comprehensive, unabridged dictionaries, in most specialized reference works, and with most atheist writers. You’d know that if you had read the material you were pointed to before. Since you refuse to read those explanations, your ignorance is self-induced. Since you insist on pontificating about a subject area where you know absolutely nothing whatsoever, that ignorance is inexcusable.

You’ve made your last such post on this site. Any future posts that do not reflect knowledge of and engage with the argument and explanations offered to counter your many false claims will be deleted without hesitation.

April 24, 2009 at 2:57 pm
(8) Ned B. says:

Darren,

First, from your last comment (comment 5) if I do not think that god exists, but am not absolutely sure, then technically, an atheist is exactly what I am. If atheism is an absence of belief in a theistic god, then how is an opinion that that god does not exist, even without certainty, not atheism?

Second, from your first response to my first comment, you say “If you do not believe, you making a definitive statement about the existence of God.” This is not true. Someone can have an absence of belief about the existence of anything without implying some sort of definitive statement about it. If I say I don’t have a belief that you have a horse in your basement, that is not really a definitive statement but one about an absence of belief.

You imply that your point about definitive statements (even if I agreed with that) suggests that non-belief requires faith. Again, that does not seem to be true. While I suppose it is possible to be an atheist purely as a matter of faith, atheism does not imply or require faith.

By the way, if there is good evidence for the existence of any theistic god, then that belief would not require faith either. However, the traditional Christian emphasis on the importance of faith seems to be based, in part, on a situation where the existence of any theistic gods does not appear to be demonstrated by evidence.

I, like many who don’t have a belief in any theistic god, base my non-belief on what I can find as available evidence. I don’t believe in a theistic god for the same reason I don’t believe in unicorns, vampires, or the tooth fairy. (I suspect that you don’t believe in these things, other than god, either, just a guess, not a definitive statement).

There doesn’t seem to be any evidence of such things that one would expect if they did exist. If unicorns, vampires, or the tooth fairy do exist (outside of sometimes entertaining fiction) it would seem that either they are far enough away so that we have no sign of them or that they are deliberately and very effectively hiding. So in the absence of evidence, disbelief or lack of belief in unicorns, vampires and the tooth fairy, doesn’t seem to require faith. I might still be wrong about them, of course. But with such absence of evidence and no good reason to believe in them, disbelief seems the reasonable view and one that does not require faith.

April 24, 2009 at 3:14 pm
(9) Austin Cline says:

Sorry, everyone, but Darren’s idea of a sensible response to being required to engage counter-arguments and explanations rather than just repeat his original assertions over and over is… to repeat his original assertions again. And insist that it’s somehow “closed-minded” for me to expect him to engage others’ ideas rather than pretend that his ideas are the only ones that exist.

So I’m treating further posts of his as trolling – though, to be quite honest, I’m no 100% sure whether he is indeed deliberately trolling. It seems that he may have recently been attending an adult Sunday School class on apologetics, so perhaps there is the possibility that he’s been taught to ignore everything atheists say to him. That could explain why I see similar behavior from other Christians as well. It’s rather sad to think that Christian teachers might be teaching other Christians to behave in such obnoxious, thick ways.

April 24, 2009 at 5:03 pm
(10) Seth351 says:

Sorry, everyone [. . .]

It’s not your fault Darren’s an idiot.

April 24, 2009 at 5:11 pm
(11) MikeC says:

Thank you Austin. I was going to request you block Darren, because he obviously has no interest in actual debate, or listening to what we have to say.

He needs to go back to his Sunday Skool class and be with people willing to buy that unfounded, superstitious, nonsense.

April 24, 2009 at 6:38 pm
(12) Alex Novak says:

Last year I wrote the letter confessing apostasy and asking to be excommunicated. I also included a scurrilous letter I had written about the Pope. No dice. So now I’m going to write the letter again and send it by registered mail. Thanks for the tip.

April 25, 2009 at 6:50 am
(13) Coryat says:

Hi, not trying to hijack the discussion but I am intrigued on a minor point: Austin, you used ‘thick’ as in dense, stupid. Is this in common use in North America? I thought that was a bit of slang only known in England?

April 25, 2009 at 7:22 am
(14) Austin Cline says:

Austin, you used ‘thick’ as in dense, stupid. Is this in common use in North America? I thought that was a bit of slang only known in England?

Well, it’s not a usage I hear everyday and it may have been more common in the past, but it’s definitely not something that the average American would be completely unfamiliar with (like “pissed” for drunk instead of angry).

April 25, 2009 at 7:48 am
(15) Coryat says:

Cheers Austin. You learn something new everyday!

April 26, 2009 at 12:08 pm
(16) Zayla says:

How NOT to get excommunicated from the Catholic Church:

Rape your 6 year old step daughter for three years until she becomes pregnant at 9 years old with twins.

Kill six million Jews.

How TO get excommunicated from the Catholic Church:

Be the doctor, or work in the clinic that performed the abortion on the 9 year old CHILD RAPE VICTIM.

Gobbel, the famed Nazi henchman is the only Nazi excommunicated from the Catholic Church…his sin? He married a Protestant.

September 3, 2009 at 6:14 pm
(17) Ezzy says:

Does the morning after pill count as an abortion or would I have to get a more invasive procedure?

Leave a Comment

Line and paragraph breaks are automatic. Some HTML allowed: <a href="" title="">, <b>, <i>, <strike>

©2014 About.com. All rights reserved.