Americans' obsession with the American flag isn't just an example of patriotism or nationalism - it's an example of fetishism. Some Americans, at least, have developed a cult around their flag in which that flag is treated almost as it if had supernatural powers, and certainly as if it were more than merely a symbol of America. The flag is treated as if it were America itself - as if it were a substitute for America, such that how you treat it were how you treat America.
Read Article: Flag Fetishism & the Cult of the American Flag
I don’t think there is anything wrong at all with treating the flag, a symbol of America with some respect. People can take anything too far, but I have no problem with something like the pledge- if that “under god” part was taken out.
I also reserve the right to call anyone who burns the flag a douche. However, I think burning the flag is a form of speech so it should not be outlawed.
Andrew,
What exactly is there to love about this country, other than it’s not in the middle east?(off topic i know) You acknowledge that burning the flag is a form of speech, so you must realize that it is a form of protest, so what could I protest without you calling me a douche?
If you can’t think of anything to love about America on your own it is likely a waste of time trying to tell you.
The way I see it freedom of speech goes both ways: I can’t, and shouldn’t be able to prevent protesters from burning the flag as a form of speech and or protest, but I still have the right to say what I think of those who burn the flag. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from being criticized.
Andrew, The question was what do YOU love about this country? I wasn’t asking you to give me reasons why I should love the u.s. And yes, you do have the right to call anyone a douche for any reason.
But the question here is, would you have a problem with someone burning the flag to protest something you also had a problem with? For example, would you call me a douche, for burning the flag because the government somehow struck the first amendment?
I guess what I’m trying to figure out is how deep your own “flag fetishism” runs. Is it complete or is there a situation you can conceive of, wherein you would not have a problem with flag burning?
Free-markets, Secularism, and freedom of speech to name a few. I also think America has been a force for good in the world.
There are people who want to diminish the first amendment with something called the “Fairness Doctrine.”
There is a difference between having a problem with something, and wanting to make it illegal. Yes, I have a problem with flag burners, but I think it would be hypocritical to pass a law to outlaw your expression of free speech. Some people want to pass a constitutional amendment to outlaw flag burning to “protect the flag,” They obviously don’t know what the hell they are talking about or else they wouldn’t be trying to restrict the first amendment.
Free-markets, Secularism, and freedom of speech wow I haven’t come across those yet. I have seen allusions to them but the free market is by no means truly free, secularism is the most ignored goal of the framers, and there are many high profile violations of freedom of speech, and soon flag burning my be outlawed again.
“I also think America has been a force for good in the world.”
Sure a few times it has, but it has also been a force for ill, It has also been an ineffectual force for nothing, so can good possibly negate the other two?
“There are people who want to diminish the first amendment with something called the “Fairness Doctrine.”” The fairness doctrine has nothing to do with flag burning, so all I’ll say is yep, the fairness doctrine is a load of B.S.
“Yes, I have a problem with flag burners” So your fetish for the flag goes pretty deep. You are certainly entitled to indulge any fettish you like, but I would like to point out that it is just a piece of cloth.
I never said the fairness doctrine had anything to do with flag burning, but it is designed to silence curb free speech.
I never said you said it had anything to do with flag burning, I was just saying I wasn’t going to comment on it other than to say it is a crock or what ever I said. No point really just wanted to clarify.
But what of the other issues? i.e. Does the good negate the bad and the “nothing failures” this country has done around the world?
Take your time I guess, but it really is a simple question.
flag burning could lead government to create laws to prevent people from speaking agains them.
I think people need to take a step back and think about the United States being the world’s beacon of democracy and freedom.
The world doesn’t necessarily want what we’re selling and somewhere along the way we forgot to ask.
I’m glad I was born, raised and still live here, but we need to stop being the New York Yankees of the world.
And get over the flag thing. That’s for morons like Sean DB Hannity and Bill O’Reilly who stand behind things like that who are actually the most unpatriotic slime I can think of.
I am a non-religious person with libertarian political views. I am also very proud of my American nationality and a US flag supporter.
There are so many reasons why people should be proud of their nationality and view the US flag as deeply symbolic. And below is a list and subsequent explanations.
First, the United States is a country that is not exclusive to any one particular race, but is instead united by our shared values of freedom and democracy. No other nation in the history of humanity has ever been as diverse as we are, nor am I aware of any other nation with diversity that has transcended their differences and united through shared commitment to the principles of freedom and democracy.
Second, we have so many liberties like free speech that are not enjoyed in most parts of the world such as Europe, where people have been put on trial for trivial speech “crimes” like criticizing Islam. (There was even a man from Austria who was convicted of “hate speech” for merely yodeling while mowing the lawn while Muslim immigrants were trying to pray.)
Third, the history of our nation has done so much in its commitment to the principles of freedom. We fought a bloody civil war where 8% of all white males died in order to end slavery (which was introduced by the British and not the USA, which wasn’t even a country at the time); we fought valiantly to end the scourge of Nazi-ism during the 1940s and liberated Europe from the heel of fascism; and we continue to make selfless commitments for freedom today.
Austin, I disagree with your criticisms. I feel like you are being unfair when you try to associate patriotic Americans with racism when you write that US flag was “used by nativists to defend a white and ethnically pure nation.” Everyone knows that being a racist is perhaps the worst thing you can be in today’s society. This quote makes it seem like you are more bent on demonizing patriotic Americans instead of criticizing us.
Libertarians don’t support restrictions on flag burning.
There are also reasons to not be so proud.
Then point out where they are mistaken.
Are you denying that the flag has been “used by nativists to defend a white and ethnically pure nation”? Why don’t you address that comment in the context it was made and offer an argument for why it’s an unjustified point to make.
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution
(not the flag; anybody can fly any old flag)
of the United States of America
and to the Republic built upon it.
One nation, (NOT Under some deity)
of many peoples,
seeking liberty and justice for all.
Flag fetishism seems strange to me, as a Canadian. Although I’m sure that Canadian flag fetishists exist, they aren’t numerous enough to be noticed.
Canada’s a fine place to live. Most of us enjoy a decent standard of living, we are generally free to live our lives as we please (as long as we don’t cause harm to others), and we seem to have a good reputation abroad. For those reasons, I consider myself fortunate to be a Canadian citizen. But to me, the Canadian flag represents a malleable political entity, not the benefits of modern-day Canadianess or “Canadian values”, if such a thing can be said to exist.
National flags don’t make sense to me as value-laden symbols. The popular values of a nation tend to change over time, even if the same buzzwords are used throughout the ages. Modern Americans might look at their flag and think “freedom”. Two hundred years ago, Americans might have looked at their flag and thought “freedom” as well… for property-owning white males.
The flag-worshipping idolators are mostly the same idiots who want idolatry in courthouses and government buildings in the form of graven “ten commandments”.
If you can’t burn your own country’s flag, you don’t have freedom. Legalizing violence against those who burn flags is on par with brownshirts and blackshirts in 1930s Europe.
Here’s something I’d like to see: false flag burning (referrring to “false flag recruitment” in espionage). Have someone with guts get a flag of Liberia and start to burn it.
http://www.mapsofworld.com/images/world-countries-flags/liberia-flag.gif
Then when some redneck inbred attempts violence on the person burning it, tell the police it was a flag of Liberia and that the attack was unprovoked. Since it wasn’t a US flag, the assault was unjustifiable even by the idiots’ own terms. It woud show how ridiculous the law is and maybe get people to think twice about it.
Or better yet, start burning confederate flags.
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