US Catholic Bishops Scared of School Atheist Clubs, Young Atheists
Cardinal Francis George,
Archbishop of Chicago
St. Peter's Basilica, 2005
Photo: Mario Tama/Getty Images
Instead we get things like an interview which Chicago's Cardinal Francis George, president of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, did with John L. Allen Jr. of the National Catholic Reporter. The interview covered a lot of issues, but atheism was one of them and Cardinal George is not at all happy about atheism -- especially the spread of atheism clubs at high schools.
You're talking about Samuel Harris, Richard Dawkins, and so on?
Yes. In Chicago, we now have atheist clubs in high schools. We didn't have those five years ago. Kids I would have confirmed in the eighth grade, by the time they're sophomores in high school say they're atheists. They don't just stop going to church, they make a statement. I think that's new. That's perhaps a bit more like Europe.
Source: National Catholic Reporter
Yes, it is new -- and that is indeed the only "new" thing about so-called "New" Atheism: people are responding to it, considering it, and taking it seriously. The arguments aren't really new. There's nothing different about the "tone" either -- despite so many complaints about atheists' tone, people like Dawkins and Harris are arguably far kinder and gentler than Madalyn Murray O'Hair. Atheism hasn't changed because atheism doesn't amount to more than disbelief in gods. There just isn't much to change in that.
What's changed is that traditional religion has lost a lot more respect and credibility in recent years than it did in previous eras. Some of this is general, with so many churches trying to hold the line against equal rights for gays and women. Fewer and fewer young people today are willing to accept bigotry against gays, women, and other minorities, so when they see churches defending that bigotry they are quickly disillusioned of the idea that churches are in any way necessary for morality, civility, or good government. Once that's achieved, it doesn't take much to recognize that theism isn't, either, and with that people are far more willing to seriously consider atheism.
Some of this is specific, and often specific to the Catholic Church. After several years of witnessing not only revelations of children having been sexually abused for decades, but also revelations that the church hierarchy worked hard for decades to cover up that abuse and protect the sexual predators from the law, it's hard for many Catholics to continue seeing their church as a bastion of morality or decency. Even those who remain in the church are disillusioned with it, but many more are falling away from it -- and once again, getting people past the idea that being religious and/or theistic is necessary or beneficial can be critical in getting them past the idea that it's even reasonable.
Do you have a theory about where that's coming from?
I think it's something of a fad, because of the aggressiveness of this new atheism. It captures people.
By that "reasoning" (and I really have to question Cardinal George's reasoning skills now), Christianity is just a "fad." After all, it's aggressive and "captures" people, right? What Cardinal George fails to recognize is that atheism isn't any sort of ideology or philosophy that can "capture" people. When a person announces that they are an atheist, they are announcing that they will no longer live as a captive of whatever theistic system or religion they were raised in. Atheism, in the current American context, is generally a shedding of one's previous captive state of Christianity.
I think that maybe Cardinal George just doesn't like losing so many captives and so is projecting the faults of his own system onto those who have figured out how to get out of it.
Atheism itself is a faith based system. The atheist believe by faith that nothing created everything. They know they ain’t no heaven but the y pray there ain’t no hell. As far at the catholic church goes, faced with declining numbers entering the priesthood the standards were relaxed and known homosexuals were allowed into the priesthood. The rule forbidding priests to marry women is often cited as the reason priest molested boys, well the priests are having sex with women because they are homosexuals allowed into the church by a pragmatic church government that put money before morality. Ironically the churches stance against homosexuality is cited as the reason the young are staying away. Maybe it simply that they do not want to molested by a homosexual pervert dressed in a roman collar. The homosexuals also did a nice job of covertly getting homos in the church and destroying it from within…a deal made in hell by them both!
What goes up must come down, I think catholocism has reached its peak and now on the downward spiral.
Prove it. Demonstrate for us what “system” is held in common by all atheists who are: conservatives, liberals, monarchists, libertarians, communists, Objectivists, Humanists, Raelians, Marxists, Buddhists, etc.
Point to one atheist who says that “everything” was “created.”
Point to one such atheist.
And this has what, exactly, to do with the article?
Cited by whom, exactly? Please provide a citation.
Why do you suppose little girls are molested?
Feel free to demonstrate that gays only entered the priesthood because of “relaxed standards.” Cite the previous standards, the new standards, and the reasons for changes.
Maybe? Cite your evidence.
Really? There was a deliberate conspiracy? Well, provide your evidence.
>>>>Atheism itself is a faith based system. The atheist believe by faith that nothing created everything.
That doesn’t even make any sense.
>>>>They know they ain’t no heaven but the y pray there ain’t no hell.
We don’t pray.
>>>> As far at the catholic church goes, faced with declining numbers entering the priesthood the standards were relaxed and known homosexuals were allowed into the priesthood.
Only after years of violence from “true christians” and condemning them.
>>>>The rule forbidding priests to marry women is often cited as the reason priest molested boys, well the priests are having sex with women because they are homosexuals allowed into the church by a pragmatic church government that put money before morality.
Huh?
>>>>Ironically the churches stance against homosexuality is cited as the reason the young are staying away. Maybe it simply that they do not want to molested by a homosexual pervert dressed in a roman collar.
Exactly.
>>>>The homosexuals also did a nice job of covertly getting homos in the church and destroying it from within…a deal made in hell by them both!
And how did you come upon this information when the vatican doesn’t even know about it.
Nothing like a Catholic, homophobe for an unbiased opinion on anything relevant to either subject. I could take his statements apart piece by piece, but I won’t. His statements are pretty self-evident. I think maybe he’s been paying too much attention to Bill Donohue. Besides, Austin, you’ve done a pretty good job, as usual.
I wish there were atheism clubs 30 years ago when I first became an atheist as a teenager. I would have liked to know I was not alone. No Internet 30 years ago, either, so I could not have known about websites like this one.
the priests are having sex with women because they are homosexuals
Say what?
Atheism itself is a faith based system?
I hear the baa baa baa of that “sheep” from here!
I don’t think atheism is a “system” at all unless one expecting evidence be provided to support any given conclusion is a “system.”
WARNING! THIS IS YOUR BRAIN ON RELIGION! WARNING!
Maybe the atheist clubs will turn into philosophy clubs..
Ken @ #1:
The atheist believe by faith that nothing created everything.
Whereas the Creationist insists by faith that everything was created from nothing.
Both are nonsensical propositions. However, the second one is an accurate summary of the literal interpretation of Genesis; the first is a straw man propped up by Creationists but seldom (if ever) by any scientist that I’m aware of.
I can’t speak for what every atheist believes, but as for myself, I accept the Big Bang theory of cosmological origin because that is where the evidence seems to lead.
The minute I see a giant, naturally-formed UPC bar code or shelf tab imprinted on the planet Earth that scans “LIFEBEARING PLANET “TERRA” MANUFACTURED BY GOD INC. MSRP $999 BAJILLION,” I’ll change my mind. But not until.
“Atheism itself is a faith based system”
What kind of kool aide have you been drinking?
My 11 year old son called is Mom at work, my Ex-Wife, and told her he needed to talk to her when she got home. He wanted her to wake him up.
My son has all the emotion of a coffee cup. He gets that from his German Mother, who is a wonderful person, but is simply, well, German.
It was too late for him to wake up so the next day he said the same thing. She tried to wake him but he wouldn’t get up, so in the morning he said he wanted to have a private talk. Obviously you don’t know my son, but this was very, very strange behavior.
She figured he was going to tell her that he didn’t want to be on his traveling basketball team anymore, which was a good guess. She would have been upset, but would have lived.
He said he had given something a lot of thought and he decided he was an atheist. She was telling me this on the phone and I was drinking a beer and it shot out my nose I started laughing so hard.
She told him he’s too young to make up his mind about something like that but she was glad he was thinking about matters that “deep” and important. She was actually proud of him.
I am an extremely open atheist and based on my bumper stickers and tee shirts it’s not hard to figure out, but the only thing I told my son was to just keep it quiet for now.
He’s in 5th grade and kids his age, as well as teachers, unfortunately do not understand things like this and as much as it pains me, I don’t want my son being a test case or example for my belief that we should not hide our atheism. I told him to just wait a while, but never be ashamed of it.
My Ex is a great lady and she knows and respects how I feel and she knows I’ve never said anything to my kids except learn everything you can and make up your own mind and I will love and support you. If I “forced” them to my thinking I would guilty of one of my main objections to religion.
Then I hung up the phone, pumped my fist and yelled YES!! Ha!
Zayla. Made my day.
As an atheist, I don’t believe that nothing created everything. “Out of nothing, nothing comes” is a principle of both logic and physics, and it means that you can’t get more out of something than you put it, or that was already there.
By logical extension, this means that something existed prior to the Big Bang. Precisely what it was is currently unknown, and we may never know, but simple logic requires it have been -something-.
For anyone who has ever wondered why physicists like Stephen Hawking say “we can’t talk about what happened before the Big Bang”, and how it differs from religious principle we aren’t permitted to question, the difference is very simple: context. When we say “before”, we refer to a chain of temporal events (events that occur at a particular point in time). However, time is a -thing-, not merely a concept. Time itself -did not exist- prior to the Big Bang, because space-time did not exist prior to it. For this reason, although it is in principle possible to talk about a chain of events leading up to the Bang, it is very difficult, because we have no means of describing _when_ they happened, or how long they lasted. We have no temporal frame of reference from which to make such a judgement.
As for me, I like science. I feel that science can answer most of our questions about the universe, and science can answer tomorrow questions it can’t answer today. So, I am an atheist because religious scriptures are either contradictory or stupid or both, and because every religion I’ve ever heard of punishes doubters and questioners.
Simply incredible.
John Hanks.
What is incredible.?
John.. Time not existing before the big bang is a theory, probably unprovable.
I question. Which Big Bang?. Was there ever only one?
I hypothesie that each time there is a big bang it is possible that it was just another big bang, one of many over an unimaginable length of time.
Astronomers see the results of other explosions, sometimes of whole galaxies or even from the aggregation of several galaxies. Maybe the whole lot will
eventually gather together and start the whole horrible cycle once again. Maybe God will get it right this time. Mind you, he had better not be too close to ground zero. Even the top gun can be too Godalmighty close.
Just my own fairy story I can’t prove a damned thing either.
- Atheism itself is a faith based system.
No. Atheism is the lack of one particular belief. How this can possibly constitute a complete faith based system is beyond me.
- The atheist believe by faith that nothing created everything.
I can only assume this poor deluded individual is referring to the big bang theory which states everything was compressed into an impossibly small point. How everything can suddenly become nothing at all is a question I will leave for the reader. It is interesting to note that many theists also accept the big bang theory – all that is required to do so if you’re a Christian is to treat Genesis as allegory or symbolic. Moreover, the big bang (or any other scientific theory) makes no mention of the supernatural since it strictly deals with reality.
- They know they ain’t no heaven but the y pray there ain’t no hell.
I know no such thing. You have claimed there are these realms but have been unable to provide sufficient evidence to prove your case to anyone who raises a single question.
- As far at the catholic church goes, faced with declining numbers entering the priesthood the standards were relaxed and known homosexuals were allowed into the priesthood.
Pedophiles and the sexually repressed however have been allowed in for years.
- The rule forbidding priests to marry women is often cited as the reason priest molested boys,
By who? Where? I can only speak for myself, but I have never been attracted to young boys if the women were not interested. Is your character so flexible that you can change your nature at will?
- well the priests are having sex with women because they are homosexuals allowed into the church by a pragmatic church government that put money before morality.
What? Why would a homosexual have sex with a woman, and why are you equating homosexuality with pedophilia?
- Ironically the churches stance against homosexuality is cited as the reason the young are staying away.
Now you are really losing the plot.
- Maybe it simply that they do not want to molested by a homosexual pervert dressed in a roman collar.
Maybe more and more young people are receiving decent education and seeing the church for what it really is – a wealthy, political powerhouse preaching abstinence, humility, constraint, purity and self denial while it hordes billions and spreads misinformation and death across the globe.
- The homosexuals also did a nice job of covertly getting homos in the church and destroying it from within…a deal made in hell by them both.
Frankly, I think the church f***** itself by demonstrating amoral behaviour, bigotry, violence, intolerance, cruelty, and hypocrisy since it was founded. I will not weep when it dies.