Comment of the Week: Are Believers Entitled to their Own Facts?
Tuesday June 30, 2009
Whatever one might think about the theoretical compatibility of science and some set of possible religious beliefs, it remains an undeniable fact that there are a significant number of popular beliefs which are contrary to science, reality, and/or history. There is no compatibility between these religious beliefs and reality, but rather than amend their religion many believers insist on trying to amend reality — or at least pretend reality doesn't matter.
My brother moved to the Atlanta area a couple of years ago and told me his 12 year old daughter had a sticker on her biology book about "evolution being one theory".
Since I live in New Jersey about 50 miles outside of NYC this is not the kind of thing that registers in my brain so I had a hard time even understanding what the f*** he was talking about (long before I got so involved in all this).
After he explained it to me, I was speechless (you need to understand the magnitude of that).
Does that mean that a few of us can get together and come up with our own version of the Civil War and demand that it at least be "considered"? We don't need historical proof, correct? Don't we just need lawyers to get it through legislators and be really, really loud and obnoxious?
Wow. People really believe this stupid nonsense.
[original post]
As has been noted by others: everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but people aren't entitled to their own set of facts. No matter what some people believe to be true or want to be true, some things just aren't true and trying to live in denial of the truth is a fool's game at best. Having to use the legislature to impose your opinions because historians and/or scientists don't accept them is little more than an admission that no one will believe you unless you use force — that argument, reason, and facts just aren't on your side.
Following the link you provide, I find the comment attributed to (6) Zayla, and there is no “John” present in the comment stream.
Mob: sorry about that… must have been looking at something else when filling in that information.
I appreciate your fixing the reference. Thank you.
I said this once to a religious friend. His response was that he didn’t understand why that would be true. Then again he also thought we made our own individual realities as well. Of course, as far as he was concerned his took presidence over and was closer to true than everyone else’s by his own admission.
Comment 4 by Al Jeremy
The great Alan Sokal has a challenge for people like that.
Actually, could could propose an alternate view of the Civil War, even one that goes so far as to dispute “the facts”. You’d face resistance, but you could do it. Freedom of expression allows us to be wrong and to be wrong out loud. i can say that Columbus was from Tijuana. That would only mean losing in Trivial Pursuit. i could play the put upon martyr for defending my beliefs against a world that refuses to accept reality. What, you believe that humans are descended from animals because some guy in a lab coat told you, but i can’t believe that Columbus is from Tijuana?
Anything you haven’t personally tested is a belief (or an acceptance). i haven’t measured the speed of light. So i’m taking some scientist’s word for it.
Somewhat related, I think, to the topic of any, so-called, “facts”…
Here’s the link to a “nice” little recent YouTube from Michael Shermer…
“RDF TV – The Baloney Detection Kit – Michael Shermer”:
[youtube.com/watch?v=eUB4j0n2UDU]
I don’t think that’s what concerns Austin. Focus instead on the following sentence from this article:
In fact, just before this sentence, Austin writes that anyone can have any opinion they want.
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mobathome
Excellent video!
I gave him a similar challenge involving his car, high speeds and a brick wall. His response was to simply wonder how we would know whether in his reality he actually passed unharmed while in mine I would need to call 911. He called this philosophy. I called it absurd.
Al, you should say there’s only one way to find out, and pick a wall.
Hi AL Jeremy.
I listened to crap like you are talking about in philosophy classes in university.
I call it “trying to sound clever”. The whole “what is reality” crowd are people best not talked to for too long, if you don’t want to lose your temper.