Can Atheists Go to Heaven?
Pew recently conducted a survey on the matter, but the results they give are a little confusing. Here is a summary created by someone else which presents the pertinent information nicely:
JEWS
* 36% of white evangelicals think Jews can go to Heaven.
* 61% of white mainline protestants think Jews can go to Heaven.
* 37% of protestants at historically Black churches, think Jews can go to Heaven.
* 61% of white Catholics4 think Jews can go to Heaven.
ATHEISTS
* 15% of white evangelicals think atheists can go to Heaven.
* 38% of white mainline protestants think atheists can go to Heaven.
* 39% of white Catholics4 think atheists can go to Heaven.
MUSLIMS
* 20% of white evangelicals think Muslims can go to Heaven.
* 46% of white mainline protestants think Muslims can go to Heaven.
* 34% of protestants at historically Black churches, think Muslims can go to Heaven.
* 49% of white Catholics4 think Muslims can go to Heaven.
CATHOLICS
* 43% of white evangelicals think Catholics can go to Heaven.
* 64% of white mainline protestants think Catholics can go to Heaven.
* 41% of protestants at historically Black churches, think Catholics can go to Heaven.
PROTESTANTS
* 66% of white Catholics4 think Protestants can go to Heaven.
Source: Alas, a blog
As you can see, most people continue to hold to the orthodox belief that atheists are going to hell. In fact, fewer Christians of every type think that atheists can go to heaven than they do about any of the other non-Christian groups asked about. It's only to be expected that most Christians believe atheists are going to hell, but the belief that you, as an atheist, are going to hell is not a morally neutral belief.
Saying that atheists are going to hell isn't like saying that you'll be going to work in the morning. It isn't even "merely" a belief with serious implications, like saying that unless you stop smoking you'll get cancer and die early. No, saying that you will go to hell because you are an atheist is more like saying that you will go to the electric chair because you're a child murderer — but worse.
A Christian who adheres in any way to traditional, orthodox doctrines about hell must believe that people who go to hell deserve to go to hell. They must believe that the people who go to hell should go to hell and that their being in hell is a good thing. Not being in hell would be a bad thing, like a child murderer going free instead of being punished.
There's no reasonable way to believe that people go to hell who shouldn't and that spending eternity in hell is an immoral, unjust situation (like Jews going to concentration camps). This would entail believing that God has set up an immoral, unjust afterlife and no devout Christian would be willing to adopt such a position. So, when a person sincerely believes that you will go to hell simply for being an atheist, then they must believe that you deserve to suffer immeasurably and unimaginably for all eternity. They must believe that it is good for you (and all other atheists) to suffer immeasurably and unimaginably for all eternity.
These implications all follow necessarily from the doctrine of hell, but what follows from these conclusions? To put the issue more bluntly: are such beliefs at all compatible with truly respecting you? Can a person really, truly, and sincerely respect you if they sincerely believe that you deserve to suffer in hell forever simply because you don't believe in the god they believe in?
Personally, I doubt it. If s Christian thinks they can sincerely adopt both the positions "I respect you" and "you will go to hell as an atheist," they're seriously mistaken. These two positions can only both be held if a person completely ignores one while focusing on the other. They are incompatible and one will have to go, even if the person doesn't recognize it yet. Perhaps there haven't been any situations which force the tension between the two to be obvious, but it will happen eventually.
In the long run, though, I don't think that a positive relationship can exsist between two people if one holds on to the belief that the other deserves the same fate as Adolf Hitler and Ted Bundy (or worse, since we don't know if they repented and converted just before death). Remember this when people complain about atheists who are being "arrogant" and "intolerant" for treating theism as a delusion — it's far, far worse to say that a person deserves to spend eternity in hell for disbelieving in gods than to say that believing in gods is irrational, unreasonable, mistaken, or even delusional.
And what about all the Christians who don't believe that atheists will go to hell? This probably encompasses a large number of liberal Christians but even given their liberal theology, why are they denying a central, orthodox Christian doctrine? There is a little bit of support for the idea of universal salvation in the New Testament, but it's not very strong and that's why it's never been a position with a lot of support in the Christian community. If a atheist who lives a good life isn't barred from heaven, what's the point of Christianity?
Comments
If my friend the theist thinks I’m going to hell for not believing in god…then who does that really hurt…not me, since I don’t believe there is a hell (or afterlife at all, for that matter)…So really they’re only hurting themselves by allowing such negative thoughts and anxiety about someone they supposedly care about. And if it becomes an issue in our friendship then we were never real friends to begin with.
My 19yo daughter is an “extreme” athlete and Christian boys are always sniffing around her.
I tell each one of them that I personally do not believe that a relationship is possible between a Christian and an atheist. That’s usually enough to scare those little theists away because my daughter and I are very close.
If I can help it, my grandchildren will not be influenced in any way by superstition and “magic”.
My daughter is a sponsored athlete, and her reps have told her not to advertise her atheism, even on her car because of the chance a judge will be adversely influenced.
It sure sucks when I see theist athletes with the Jesus stickers all over their gear. Especially since so many of them are really drunks in disguise. My kid doesn’t drink or smoke and she’s the bad girl because she doesn’t believe in imaginary friends?!
Sucks sucks sucks
Of course atheists can’t go to heaven. Neither can Christians, Jews, Muslims or anyone else for that matter.
Are we even now?
How about Pastafarian’s? Could pasta really be that bad?
RE: Sherry’s post
Perfect example of hypoChristianity if I’ve ever seen it.
Jeffrey Dahmer The Milwaukee Cannibal became a born-again Christian in prison.
How do you reckon the other Christians treat him up there? Do you think they’re a bit stand-offish because he murdered 17 men and boys, often embellishing the murders with rape, torture, dismemberment, necrophilia and cannibalism? Or is all forgiven?
Would you really want to be in Heaven with Jeffrey Dahmer The Milwaukee Cannibal?
Living with theists is hell! This is it folks. It doesn’t get any worse than living in America in the 21st century with a bunch of people who believe in an invisible sky fairy, and another bunch of people trying to kill us for that same invisible fairy tale persona.
You are all lost and i feel sorry for you. God bless you.
rickairscrnnme, I take it you’re not lost.
So you’re the perfect person to ask: are you looking forward to spending eternity with Jeffrey Dahmer The Milwaukee Cannibal?
If you are not saved you will go to Hell wheather you think it or not.
If you are not saved you are going to Hell wheather you think in or not!!!!!
There is no hell, there is no heaven.
Justice must be served on earth, in reality.
Our planet is real.
If you get so much joy about thinking about the afterlife, just go away! Let those of us who love life be free to live it.
You may love life but you will hate death, and whats with all the hostility.
Uh, you’re the one exuding hostility in your two posts. That’s what threats of eternal torment in hell are: unbridled hostility. So long as you sincerely believe a person deserves to suffer for eternity simply for not believing in your god, then you can’t claim to want any sort of positive relationship or interaction with such a person.
mikaela siemens says: you will hate death.
If I am dead, how would I know? Just curious.
Right, that’s been three theists now (or at least three usernames). Answer my question! It’s not a joke, Jeffrey Dahmer The Milwaukee Cannibal became a born-again Christian in prison before he was killed by another inmate. If he truly repented, he should be in heaven right now, laughing at George Carlin, Carl Sagan etc writhing in agony for DARING to disbelieve.
Are you looking forward to meeting Jeffrey Dahmer The Milwaukee Cannibal in heaven, and spending eternity with him? It’s a simple question.
Dear Mark,
any saved by faith true Christian will go to heaven no mater what they have done. Not to long ago a man was on death row for killing two people. The man asked to see the pastor of my church. He was saved by Jesus Christ that day and he is in heaven now. So to answer your question, any person who is truly saved will go to heaven so if this Jeffrey Dahmer is turly saved I will no problem with him in heaven.
What’s white, black, and red all over?
a Christians view of death.
ChristianWalk, do you think that’s justice?
So your answer to the question “If a man murders 17 men and boys, often raping and mutilating them, and he goes to hell why is he going to hell?” Is that it’s because of his lack of faith in Christ? Not because of the murdering and raping and cannibalism? Somebody who is guilty of such acts can still get to heaven?
Is there any actual worldly act that somebody can commit that would bar them from heaven? Is there anything so hideous, so depraved, so blood-curdlingly chilling that the perpetrator would be banned from heaven forever? Blowing up an orphanage? Raping the Pope? Anything that Jesus wouldn’t forgive?
Because, to be honest, this Jesus character sounds awful lot like a cult leader who cares nothing about the behaviour of his followers as long as they retain their loyalty to him. Disloyalty is the only crime; anything else he’s flexible on.
Since Adolph Hitler was a Catholic will you say Hi to him for me. Or, don’t Catholics go to heaven?
Good point, Ron. As long as Hitler was right with Christ in his bunker at the end, he should be in heaven right now, from what I can see.
Bygones, and all that.
I see your point Austin, but most Christians I’ve spoken with or seen speaking over the internet claim that God DOESN’T send people to hell, but that they end up going there anyway. Do you think that makes any sense?
No. An omnipotent being is necessarily responsible for what happens around it.
First, no hell would exist if God didn’t will it to exist.
Second, no one would go to this hell if God didn’t allow it.
Third, the entire salvation scheme by which certain people go one way and others go another way wouldn’t exist without God’s direct, deliberate actions.
Saying that “God doesn’t send people to hell” is the rationalization of a person who recognizes that the orthodox soteriology of Christianity is grossly immoral and unjust, but who can’t bear to say this outright. So instead they make up reasons for how the situation can continue to exist but without their deity being responsible for it.
This is a step forward because so many Christians continue to adhere to orthodox Christian belief that God is indeed responsible and deny that there is anything immoral or unjust about it.
Trying to debate these theists, like Mikaela is pointless. Their “logic gene” is missing. They are ridiculous in their insistence. However, as bible thumpers, logic and reason have nothing to do with their world. They cannot be reasoned with. Imagine a god who would reject Gandhi in deference to Hitler, for saying the right words.
That is another one of many reasons atheism makes a lot of sense to any thinking, logical, reasoning human. I fervently hope more will join the ranks of atheism. Maybe then we can have a somewhat saner world.
I contend that organized theistic religion is a kind of unrecognized mental disorder. Depending on which belief system you follow, you are more or less insane, especially the Abrahamic, Judeo-Christian religions, based on books of mythology. That’s not to ignore others, for all religion contaminates the whole world, as opposed to infecting a specific country. By the way, I also despise missionaries, who cloak helping those in need with strings attached to their hidden agendas and indoctrination.
Dear Mark,
sory I took so long getting this to you.
1 John 3:15
15Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him.
God sees hate(unjust anger) as a sin because it is the same as murder in the heart, which is against God’s character. Since every body has hated someone in their life, we are all murders no different than this Jeffrey Dahmer.
That’s Conversation Killer Number 4, but I’ll still respond.
So your religion allows you to make no distinction between yourself and Jeffrey Dahmer The Milwaukee Cannibal? So much the worse for your religion.
The charity worker in the soup kitchen is the same as the rapist in the eyes of your faith?
Charming. You’re not exactly being a good salesperson for your religious franchise at the moment.
Christians often claim that, in addition to the fantastic post-mortem benefits of their faith, it has positive worldly effects. I take it you wouldn’t make this claim, seeing as you are exactly the same as a man who raped, killed and ate 17 men and boys DESPITE your Christianity.
I take it you wouldn’t make the argument that Christianity leads to good behaviour, or anything of the like? After all, if Christianity makes no distinction between a murderer and a charity worker, how could it?
In order to do so, Christianity would need to acknowledge that somebody who kills and mutilates 17 people and somebody who DOESN’T kill and mutilate 17 people are appreciably different, before it could inspire somebody either way, and you say it doesn’t do that.
You’re making it sound like, rather than being a way to make people behave better, Christianity is just a way to make hardened killers feel better about themselves.
This is a complement to the standard “If there’s no God, why be good” argument often made by Christians, who don’t understand that what they are saying is that THEY see no other reason than God to be good to anyone. They are essentially saying that they believe Christianity is for sociopaths. Again, not the greatest sales pitch.
It seems to me that if…
1.no murderer has eternal life in him. and if
2. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer and finally
3. Since every body has hated someone in their life, we are all murders(sic) no different than this Jeffrey Dahmer.
Then nobody has eternal life in him.
Heaven must be a really empty place.
On a similar note,
check out the interesting way the Catholic Church has of ranking its priorities.
Genocide can be handled by minor functionaries, but the SERIOUS sins like biscuit abuse can only be addressed by the Pope.
Don’t you just want to cry?
Yes. Heaven is up to God.
Then what’s the point of Christianity?
This thread is pretty good. Kudos to those theists who are at least trying to answer the questions. Unfortunately, they don’t have any good material to work with, but at least they’re trying. Some damned pointy questions have been asked.
No theist will lose his faith from one question; but over time the drip, drip, of hearing those questions moderates people and societies, and eventually can free them from theism.
The only answers I see are, “believe in god or burn in hell forever” and “repent at the end of your life or burn in hell forever”, only in other words.
I found it interesting that Monsignor Lorenzo Albacete opines in his interview with Robert Wright on meaningoflife.tv (http://atheism.about.com/b/2009/01/12/can-atheists-go-to-heaven.htm#commentform) that atheists can go to heaven. It depends on the condition of your heart, whatever that means. He said that it is possible than an atheist might be more likely to go to heaven than he (Lorenzo) could. Maybe he is just being modest and trying to hedge his bets.
Mehh… i think i will stick with Eris.. At least she is Fun.. Why should i follow a belief that if you do not Believe it’s so called loving God. That “Loving God” Will send you to a Terrible place Full of pain and suffering Much like a Brady bunch reunion.
but that is just my opinion.
I have a few neighbors of the overly religious persuasion and I have often wondered if they can simultaneously respect me and believe that I am going to burn forever after death, and deserve it. It’s quite a contradictory position to hold. But then I realized, these people are masters of turning logic on and off at will. They do it every Sunday morning. It seems I am the only one with a hangup.
On a related note, if Jeff Dahmer is in Heaven: 1)Has he met up with any of his victims?, and 2)Given his choice of fun on Earth, I wonder what he is doing for fun there.
ChristianWalk says:
The man asked to see the pastor of my church. He was saved by Jesus Christ that day and he is in heaven now:
Sounds like an easy way out by someone who thought he’ll get the pastor in just in case there really is a heaven and a hell. And then to top it off: the pastor arrives, and ’saves’ him THAT DAY!! How convenient and lovely! Puh-leeaase!!
Lets get real here – deathbead conversions only happen because people suddenly get worried that there really might be a hell, or a heaven. I despise religion for saying a prayer, sprinkling you with holy water and painting you safe — honestly!!
And with all due respect ChrisitanWalk – how do YOU know this suddenly saved jailbird looser is now in heaven? Did you get a letter from ‘god’ that he has been granted entry? If so, please publish it, I’d love to read it.
And publish yr IQ along with yr letter. I am waiting with bated breath….
I know that this post is a little over a month old, but I really feel I should get my opinion out there, for the side of the Christians.
First, I’d like to point out that there is certainly no apparent PROOF-proof that can show that Christianity is real or not, so if you’re Atheist, I’m not going to argue with you. What I can say is that it gives me hope, and no matter what happens in life, at least I have something to look forward to. If you’re an atheist, and you can’t really argue with me here, life is it, there’s no hope in the end, just enjoy what you have, and to me, that’s a little empty. I’m not going to say you’re going to hell for being an Atheist, but based on my beliefs, you would, and I am saddened by that, but that’s God’s choice, not my own.
Secondly, for the man that murdered 17 people, NO, I would NOT want him in heaven with me, UNLESS he deserved it, and that’s something God would decide. I can tell you that he did not just repent and say sorry and get into heaven. God is, obviously, not an idiot, he wouldn’t just let him spend eternity in heaven because he asked for forgiveness, he would have to mean it, he would have to be sorry for all the things he did, and quite frankly, I doubt he was sorry, so he’s probably spending eternity in hell right now, but I really don’t know.
Last, you really couldn’t expect me to know either, I’m a Christian, I’m not God, but what’s right is right, and that’s my goal in life, do what’s right, ask for forgiveness for all the stupid things I’ve done, and know that what God gives me is what I deserve.
And to answer the original poster’s question. I have to say, I do not believe an Atheist can go to heaven, my reason? If an atheist were to go to heaven, then almost everyone could go to heaven, that, to me, is not what God wants. God wants people to believe in him, worship him, ask for forgiveness, and make the right decisions. Atheists may make the right decisions, but they don’t worship him, believe in him, and ask for forgiveness. That is just my opinion. As I’ve said before, God will decide!
Why is this god so insecure that it cares more that people believe in it than whether they are good? Why so insecure that he needs to be worshiped? If you met a person like that at work you’d probably hate him, or think he was crazy. Why should i ask forgiveness of the thing that condemned our species to this existence? If your god doesn’t exist… no it won’t decide. Why would a non-physical entity need a gender? Is there a goddess for him to mate? Or could it be that the people who invented him were male and wanted their deity to give them power over women? Occam’s Razor suggests the latter.
How can we make the right decisions under coercion? Is it the right decision if i did it solely to get into heaven? Or am i just gaming the system?
Who told you what this god wants? Why do you let them have so much power over you? What’s wrong with your brain and your own ability to assess the situation? Are you morally or intellectually deficient? Does what these people tell you jive with what you feel/see in the real world? Are shellfish abomination?
This god of yours would be a total jerk if he didn’t let good atheists into heaven. Besides, it’s not called heaven, it’s called Valhalla. i hope you’ve been a brave warrior, all that praying is not impressing Odin one bit.
Heaven is Xmas for adults. Be good all year/life and you’ll get a reward. Fettuccine alfredo is mac and cheese for adults.
I often hear christians saying the going to hell is self-inflicted to make it seem like god isn’t that evil and that it isn’t his wish that people go there. If it is self-inflicted and god isn’t responsible why did he make the place?
One answer I’ve heard is “It was not by original plan and design for men and women–for human sinners. It was prepared for the Devil and his angels.”
So god made a colossal mistake and didn’t see this coming? Not very omnipetant if you ask me.
To add to this, who decides whether or not I believe in god? Would that not be god himself? So in this hypothetical story world… god judges me.. determines that I’m “not worthy” and then tosses me into an eternity of torture? Or is this an automatic “do not pass begin, do not collect 200, go straight to jail” type of thing?
If its automatic then what happens to a baby that dies shortly after birth. The baby doesn’t know a thing about any religion. We are all born atheists. According to their argument this baby should go automatically to hell for eternity. I’m sorry but this god sounds like the most evil, sick and depraved entity I can imagine. Enter the “god makes exceptions” arguement. So-oo… he does indeed control who goes into hell and who doesn’t? What is the time limit on a baby before it loses the right to get this special treatment? Does this work for people who’ve never even heard of christianity?
Is it only once you’ve learnt about jesus/god and you reject him are you liable to go to hell? If thats the case shouldn’t the whole world stop preaching the bible effective immediately! I mean if no one knows of jesus no one can make the mistake of choosing the “wrong” path and we’ll all go to “heaven”.
“Allowing anyone to suffer ultimate torment for all eternity–particularly when it is within your power to prevent it–is arguably the greatest form of evil possible.”
THIS Atheist doesn’t really believe in “heaven” or “hell” so it really doesn’t matter to me whether I go “here or there”.
As one other person on here said, Why is god so insecure that he just “has” to care what people do or don’t believe in?
” If you’re an atheist, and you can’t really argue with me here, life is it, there’s no hope in the end, just enjoy what you have, and to me, that’s a little empty.”
Umm… Actually we really can. Life is certainly what you make of it. Enjoy it. Coming to terms with reality has give me a an invigorated boost. I’m living life as full as I can. Moved into a new profession that I’m thoroughly enjoying. No worrying about ridiculous superstitions. As well as an understanding that everyone has just one life just like me. Life is significantly more precious when you perceive it that way and not as some bizarre twisted “test” to see if we go to heaven or hell that is based on whether or not we believe in something that has no evidence.
Aaron.
On other blogs you have avoided answering my questions but I will persist one more time.
Where is God/Heaven/Hell? What is your verifiable evidence for the existence of each of them outside of a brainwashed imagination?
As you conceded there is no PROOF supporting religious beliefs. WHY have such a ridiculous
affiliation?
Is it a necessary qualification to have n Ozarkian mentality and educational standard to he a believer? I pose this as worldwide the most devout countries, any religion, are invariably those with the lowest average educational standards, e.g. S.America,India, U S A. The last one? Yep! you rank 18th in the education rankings of “Advanced Western Countries, and No.1 in religious affiliation.
Says it all really.
Aaron says: “I do not believe an Atheist can go to heaven, my reason? If an atheist were to go to heaven, then almost everyone could go to heaven….”
You say that like it’s a bad thing.
I have to say, I do not believe an Atheist can go to heaven, my reason? — Aaron on February 23, 2009 at 10:58 am
Aaron, let’s talk about humility.
First of all, “atheist” is not a proper noun, so you should not capitalize it.
Secondly, your message quoted above is a comma splice. That means that you do not know the rules of standard English.
I am not saying that it is impossible to be ignorant of good writing skills and still know something useful about other matters.
Still, doesn’t it seem like a good idea to attain some mastery over the easy subjects before going on to the more difficult ones?
Wouldn’t you agree that forming a correct English sentence is a more modest ambition than determining the nature and wishes of a god, assuming that such a thing exists at all?
If you don’t know when it’s time to use a period, shouldn’t you at least consider that in your ideas about more weighty matters there may be room for error?
Zack..
Don’t expect an answer from Aaron. If his grammar is incorrect it is of no great moment.
What would be relevant would be if he had a sensible message or an answer.
My suspicions are that he is a very young school person. Guess he’s gone to his Pastor, who probably prompted him to visit us in the first place. That is what an SDA friend did when I posed a series of questions to her.
His advice was to avoid talking to me about the subject. Plus “You can’t win against these atheists.” Guess he had to be right once in a while.
Aaron.
Still no reply.
So I’m not going to heaven THANK CHRIST FOR THAT. My only problem would be that IF there is a hell I’d be spending eternity in the company of Bush, Swaggart, Cheney, Blair. Politicians, Pastors, Priests, and Aaron.
If his grammar is incorrect it is of no great moment. — Tom Edgar on March 1, 2009 at 7:05 pm
I’m not so sure.
If someone clearly showed ignorance of basic arithmetic, but wanted to tell you all about the errors they had unearthed in the notebooks of Isaac Newton, would you be wrong to suggest that they consider the gap between their demonstrated talents and their professed ambitions?
I agree that he’s probably a young person. At any rate, I sure hope he is. It would be depressing to think that a mature person had produced such a post.
I also agree that we have probably heard the last from Aaron.
Ah!! Zack.
I’ll concede you a point but only insofar as it demonstrates Aaron’s (and others) absolute lack of education, which is a prerequisite to to be a “Fundie.”. However as he wasn’t pontificating on the English language, but in it, I think on that point we should grant him a little leeway. This doesn’t excuse him however for lacking in expertise in the area of religious philosophy. People who do not wish to seem foolish should hold their tongues, otherwise they dispel any doubt.
I would hate to speak on mathematics, but I hope I have enough sense to venture not into places where I would look as foolish as Aaron.
Such is the folly of youth. They will go
where commonsense and experience would prevail them not to enter, if they didn’t we would never have a Military.
In all fairness I think Zack is being overly critical of Aaron. Aaron’s command of english sentence structure and punctuation is not germane to the discussion at hand. This is why the analogy of the math discussion falls on its face. Aaron was not asked to opine on the proper construction of a sentence in British or American English. We do not know if Aaron is a native english speaker. There are some languages in which the comma splice is generally considered acceptable if I’m not mistaken what if his native language is one of those?
Point is, we can disagree with his belief in his god and the existance of heaven and hell and we can take him to task for being poorly prepared in that discussion as that is what the discussion is about. However, so long as he is able to make himself understood on this board regardless of his ability to pass english 101 then we should grant him some leeway as Tom suggests.
Indeed. I appreciated the posts until the ad hominem arguments came along…
Tom and fauxrs — I could respond to your posts point by point, and let me tell you, it would be grammatical and impeccably logical and stuffed full of learnedness and wit. But I hate to show off.
Of Aaron, I will speak no more unless provoked.
I appreciated the posts until the ad hominem arguments came along… — Fred on March 5, 2009 at 1:20 pm
Are my ears burning?
As rarely as one encounters an ad hominem argument on this board, if you think you have detected one, then don’t be coy — by all means, disclose the awful details.
satan and god decided to have a lil chat see how each other was doing satan said “oh im having a right laugh plenty of drugs sex and rock’n'roll. how about you. god turns round in tears and says ” everyday i have to cook, clean the dishes, wash the floor make the beds”.
satan turns round and says “whatever for” god replies “coz im the only bugger up here”