Forum Discussion: Would You Exploit Religious Believers?
Wednesday August 27, 2008
Given the proliferation of religious images in toast, cinnamon buns, windows, and so forth, it shouldn't be too hard to find or even make such an image yourself and make money from your "miracle." Should you do it, though? Granted, you know that it's false, but if others sincerely believe it is genuine, is it still fraud? Even if you create it deliberately, it would be consistent for believers to insist that you're simply being used by God to reinforce the faith of others. God works in mysterious ways, right?
Say you look at your wooden cupboard one day, and notice that the pattern in the grain resembles some religious icon... Would it ever cross your mind to share this with (basically, make money or fame off of) people who might appreciate such a thing? Would you sell such a thing on eBay, hyping it as a miracle? Or would you refrain from fleecing those who don't know any better?
This post was inspired by the fact that in my house, we have a bathroom door that seems to have a “shroud of Turin” style Jesus in the grain. I’ve noticed this for several years- mainly because it’s most visible when I’m sitting on the toilet (it’s right across from it, and the glare hits it whenever I sit down- it used to freak me out when I was younger). If I could, I wouldn’t sell it, just because it makes a good conversation piece.
If we are convinced that something is false, do we have an ethical obligation not to profit from those who sincerely and strongly believe differently? Do you have an ethical obligation not to promote beliefs which you think are false and silly, even if not acting in this case would not lead to those beliefs being reduced at all?
What if it’s arguable that we are causing harm by promoting beliefs which we know are false and ultimately discourage skepticism and critical thinking? What if you profit from the situation and then, after a while, laugh at everyone — would that be ethical? Add your thoughts to the comments here or join the discussion in the forum.
Comments
I would exploit it in the most ethical way possible. I’d post it on my blog or on flickr saying that it LOOKS like the figure in the Shroud or Turin, a known medieval forgery. I would say that the face in my door is an example of the pareidolia effect, wherein the mind makes pattern matches where there are no actual patterns to see a face.
Then, if the picture generated some interest and especially if some religious adherent insisted that it was a miracle, I would place it on e-bay with a similar disclaimer. I would, however, pump it up a bit by saying “It has been suggested that god has appeared to me in my bathroom cabinetry in an attempt to sway my atheist heart. That attempt has failed. But you can benefit by purchasing my bathroom fixtures so that you can have the face of your lord and savior watching you while you sit on your toilet.”
You’re lucky. I had demon-things in the wood paneling next to my bed when I was a kid. Nobody was going to buy that.
I simply had to make a related comment on this. In all these supposed “sightings” of religious icons in everything from toast to a tree trunk, no one actually knows the actual countenance of these individuals (if they even existed).
That’s right! The elephant in the room is that there are no, I repeat NO contemporary likenesses of any of them! Not one person ever had a life portrait, or even death mask of any of them made. No sketch, no coinage, nada, zilch, zero!
The only likenesses we know are strictly imaginary fabrications of artistic license.
This is one of my main objections to all these types of “images”. They may as well be FSM or Mickey mouse.
One of the most ridiculous ones recently, was right here in the Chicago area, where I live. An “image” of the virgin Mary in a stain on the concrete wall of an underpass! They finally had to paint it over to get rid of the crowds of the “faithful” it attracted!
How people could be this gullible, eludes and exasperates me completely. Certainly this is akin to all the ancient Greek and Roman likenesses of Zeus, Venus et al. Why are the Judeo-Christian deities any different? “Because I said so”?
This has always bothered me, but I will spare you, dear reader, any more ranting on this subject at this time.
I certainly have been thinking on getting or making as many different “miraculous” images of Jesus, the Virgin, etc. as possible…
Then sell them all on eBay and donate the money to some science museum, atheist organization or something like that.
The other posibility, is to open a gallery or sorts for people to go and see all those images. charge a couple of bucks for the entrance and again donate the money to a more useful organization
You are all going to hell if you don’t change your life and your beliefs. I really pray that you get some new understanding and that GOD saves you, like Saul on his way to Damascus. I’ll be praying for you all, especially the man who leads this forum.
Hi, Christel,
I am looking forward to getting Acquainted with you there.
Foolish Christel, pray to your false gods all you wish. The truth is we’re all damned. C’thulu will soon awaken. No one will be saved. Your best hope is to pledge your live in servitude to the Old Ones so that you will be among the first eaten. Better to plunge into the maw willingly to save yourself the distress in watching men go mad and the world burn. Ph’nglui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtagn!
Anyway, a fool and his money are soon parted. I am unconvinced that anyone who charges admission to view any of those mentioned “sightings” isn’t scamming the delusional. Anyone stupid enough to think a dog’s butt holds a divine image deserves to be ripped off.
I used to live in Phoenix, AZ. A TV news reporter was at a South Phoenix man’s house where the Virgin Mary appeared in a window screen. The man said he saw her when he was watering the shrubs next to his house. He called the news media, and they arrived post haste, but the image dried up. Mostly because it was 120 degrees in the shade. The man then proceeded to water the screen and low and behold the face appeared again. It was a miracle. People came from all over to witness the miracle. Soon the man had a carnival in his front yard. It was the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen on the news.
Poor Christel. It must be so sad to live your whole life looking only forward to your death.
Yes, I would exploit “believers” if it will give me money to help abused children and animals and senior citizens and the homeless etc….
Hi, Christel, Me Again. (I’ll be praying for you all, especially the man who leads this forum.)
Just curious. Is it important that we be informed that you will be praying for us?
Christel,
This isn’t the forum. No Christians being fed to lions here.
Well, not literally anyway.
Hi, Christel
Me again, Ron. You got me going now. You mentioned Saul. I gather by your name that you are woman. Maybe you’ve got a point about living your life by biblical principles. So, I think a good place to start would be on Saul’s comments about what a womans “place” is. How do you feel about that?
“Anyone stupid enough to think a dog’s butt holds a divine image deserves to be ripped off.”
Fool! Do not give away my get rich master plan before I am prepared to unveil Sparky’s divine anus to the world!
I’d advise you all (Ron especially) to dismiss Christel as the troll she is! Call me thin-skinned if you will, but in my humble opinion, Christel satifies the definition of a troll. Her post was both pretty inflammatory and utterly irrelevant to the topic at hand. Ergo, it qualifies as trolling.
‘I’d advise you all (Ron especially) to dismiss Christel as the troll she is! Call me thin-skinned if you will, but in my humble opinion, Christel satifies the definition of a troll. Her post was both pretty inflammatory and utterly irrelevant to the topic at hand. Ergo, it qualifies as trolling. ‘
I thought trolling was when you said something just to be inflammatory? You didn’t really believe it? Agreed, her comment was irrelevent and a load of nonsense, but there are a lot of nonsense-believers out there sadly.
Hmmmm. I have a hand made wool rug in one of the bathrooms. With some imagination the center design looks like cartoon space monsters. I have decided that I have a magical image of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Any buyers?
Publicly threaten to paint over the picture on the door unless you get $10,000 by noon tomorrow. See what happens.
K.Anonymous,
An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion. - Source: Wikipedia
Look in any dictionary and it’s a fair bet that you’ll find more or less the same definition. From what I can see here, whether the person actually believes what they say is irrelevant. What matters is that what is posted by the person is:
1) totally irrelevant to the topic at hand and
2) written in an inflammatory tone, designed deliberately to provoke an emotional reaction out of others on the chat room or discussion board.
I maintain that Christel is a troll. I have no reason to doubt whether she actually believes what she gives the impression of believing, but this (to me, at least) is immaterial. I would still call it inflammatory on Christel’s part to turn up on this thread to tell all us poor, sinful, deluded unbelievers how we’re doomed to eternal damnation in hell unless we repent, turn to God and change our ways and how she’ll be praying ‘that (we) get some new understanding and that GOD saves (us)’. It also seems pretty clear that she was doing this to elicit an emotional response from us. Christel is hence a troll, end of.
this is a good bit on the proper term trolling:
http://www.urban75.com/Mag/troll.html
Methinks Cristel isn’t trolling, so much as being the typical concerned (arrogant and condescending) person. She probably actually believes what she’s saying (trolls usually don’t). Which is sad.
You can buy a toaster that uses a computer to make images on toast.
http://www.coolest-gadgets.com/20070502/custom-toast-printing/
I’m still waiting for the “shroud of Turin maker.” I’m sure they’ll come out with one soon.