Mailbag: Feel the Love!
Subject: The Spirit
Have you ever let yourself be confirmed by the spirit that he lives? Sometimes it's just easier for people not to believe in a God, then they think they're the only one they have to answer their consequences to. I have a friend who was an athiest because of that reason (for the most part), he didn't want to feel bad for doing bad things, but now he believes in Christ because he let himself feel His love. He told me that he doesn't think that he could truly love until he had his faith in Christ.
Here we can see a number of disturbing, although not surprising, misconceptions about atheism. First there is the implicit assumption that as an atheist, I have never explored Christianity. Then there is the assumption that someone would be an atheist simply in order to avoid having to answer to a higher authority. Finally, there is the idea that a person can't know love outside of theism and/or Christianity.
Of course, none of that is actually true - but many evangelical Christians continue to believe such things and more. Apparently, talking to actual atheists about it in order to learn something new about atheism simply isn't an option. They feel that they already know all that they need to, for some reason.
What would have to happen for youn to believe in Christ? Just like when Christ was on the earth and performed many miracles, some people still wouldn't believe. Maybe you're just one of those people? But, I think that they didn't want to. That would mean they would have to be good and follow his example. Well, his example is good.
I would believe Christian claims about Jesus if they were able to provide good reasons to believe those claims. So far, no such good reasons have been forthcoming. Referring to the Bible doesn't do it because the Bible is no more credible than other religious texts - texts which, by the way, make contradictory claims. Referring to the lives of Christians doesn't do it because having a life-changing experience is no evidence that one has true beliefs - and besides, people in other religions have life-changing experiences as well.
Instead of providing good reasons for belief, however, Jenny chooses instead to go with something simpler and easier: an ad hominem argument. No, it's not an abusive ad hominem that consists simply of insults (although that is also there in the implication that atheists don't want to be good); instead, it's an ad hominem which dismisses my position by dismissing the alleged psychological motivations for it. Whether an atheist doesn't want to follow Jesus' example is quite irrelevant to whether theism is a reasonable position. This ad hominem argument is a fallacy because it attempts to refute a position by focusing on something that is ultimately irrelevant.
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Comments
How long will this blog be up for? I have a presentation due in a month, and this information will be very helpful.
The blog and this particular post aren’t going anywhere. Just save the URL and you’ll find this again just fine.
Jenny, would you like to know of an atheist who leads a good, rewarding life?
I have a ladyfriend, good friends, family, coworkers, and hobbies. I do volunteer work with several area schools and for the board of directors at my co-op complex. I try to be good to others and expect the same in return. And I do all of this WITHOUT believing in god or Christ or anything else of a religious nature.
Amazing, huh, Jenny?
Jenny:
One does not need a Jesus or bible to be an incredibly, compassionate,ethical, loving and philanthropic, law abiding citizen of the world.
Of course,the fact that there was never any verifiable historical, contemporary proof that Jesus even existed, doesn’t even phase you (the bible itself doesn’t prove anything).
Forgetting about that elephant in the living room, another salient fact,about your loving Savior. According to the Christian belief, if you do not accept this loving god as your personal savior, he will burn you in hell for eternity. That’s real love, right?
Personally, I am a better person now (not actively believing in God) than I was when I was in a religion.
Now I am not just doing good to please anyone, or to receive anything or out of fear of losing something.
I have “nothing to gain” from doing good. I do good and am kind to people because life is hard enough without unkindness and everyone deserves kindness. I try to be kind and help people because I feel that is the best way to make use of my time.
And I feel better about it because in the back of my head, I am not deluding myself or forcing myself to overlook certain unexplained doctrinal issues. I feel as though I’ve matured, and am heading in the right direction slowly, instead of no real direction very quickly.
I wonder if “Jenny” would accept her own arguments if we replaced her use of ‘Christ’ with ‘Muhammad’ or ‘Buddha’?
Nazi propaganda features triumphal images of soldiers carrying flags, AND IT ALSO FEATURE MAWKISHLY SENTIMENTAL IMAGES OF WOMEN AND BABES. The two almost always go together. Christianity is permeated with the same types of images. There is both a loving mawkishly sentimental Jesus and then there is a tough guy righteous Jesus. Essentially these are images appropriate to running protection rackets - the most common criminal type.
Goodness is part of human nature, but so is selfishness. Perhaps some people need the threat of eternal damnation from their loving god to behave, but not everybody needs to be coerced into succumbing to their own social natures. One thing I find refreshing in Buddhism that is entirely lacking in Christianity is that Buddhists accept that the world is made of different people who have different needs. Episcopalians are in a crisis now, afraid that their church will split. Buddhists would consider this to be a good thing. Perhaps when Jenny grows out of her adolescent need to make everyone exactly like herself, she might find some solace in Buddhism?
Jenny asks: “What would have to happen for you to believe in Christ?”
My rather obvious counter question to all the Jennies: what would have to happen for you not to? Would any argument, no matter how well crafted and supported, dissuade you? If not, wouldn’t you be excusing yourself from the demands of coherent argument and sufficient proof? And, if you’d be willing to excuse yourself from these requirements, would you really be on a firm footing denying the same recourse to those who didn’t agree with you?
And whence comes your assertion—your presumption, really—that any who don’t acknowledge the existence and/or lordship of Jesus Christ are deviously engaging in this rejection out of a desire to deny answerability to a “higher” authority? This kind of thinking arises in minds which never seem to consider—or deviously avoid?—the possibility they may be wrong, and that this wrongness is fairly evident to others.
What would have to happen for youn to believe in Christ? — “Jenny,” by e-mail
If the vowels on my keyboard stop working, I will convert to Christianity.
AEIOU and sometimes Y
Sojourner: Wicked, Man!
Tamar: Great personal anecdote, and very convincing as well!!
Craig Duckett: Good point.
John Hanks: A little inflammatory, but good observation.
Paul: 9-point response.
John Halloran: 10-point response!
Zack: I will only assume you were being facetious?
Jenny: Where are you, Jenny?…
I got a 9! Not bad, unless it’s a 100 point scale …
Suicism:
I appreciate your appreciation.