Communists Agree with Christians on Criminalizing Homosexuality
Today, former communists in Russia are working with conservative Christians in the Orthodox Church to make homosexuality a crime again.
The legislation, introduced Monday by Deputy Nikolay Kuryanovich would bring back the old law, and make it a crime for gays to congregate - a provision that would bar gay pride parades or meetings.
How far Kuryanovich's bill will advance is unknown. As an Independent he does not have a party backing him but the measure has widespread support from former Communists and parties allied to the Russian Orthodox Church.
The bill is the latest in a series of attempts to stifle Russia's gay community.
Source: 365Gay
Conservative Christians in America like to attack both atheistic communism and liberal attitudes towards homosexuality, but how do they deal with the fact that the old communist governments were and at least some communists today are as illiberal in their treatment of pornography, homosexuality, and related matters as the Christians would like the American government to be?
Why don't we hear them praise those old communist laws? Why don't we hear them admit some admiration for illiberal, totalitarian policies? Would they be interested in working with illiberal atheists in such matters, or would their aversion to atheism and communism cause them to refuse? I wonder what's more important to them, bigotry towards gays or bigotry towards atheists.
Regardless, news stories like this help demonstrate that being an atheist doesn't make a person liberal, tolerant, reasonable, rational, or anything else decent. Atheists are more than capable of working on behalf of illiberal, authoritarian, repressive political agendas. There are no political, philosophical, or social beliefs shared by all atheists.
It's a person's political and personal philosophy that is most important, not being an atheist or a theist. I have little in common with the atheist communists referenced in the above article and would be unlikely to work with them towards any political or social goals. It's not their being communists that's necessarily the problem, but their illiberal attitudes make them as valuable as religious fundamentalists when it comes to fulfilling political goals.
Comments
Frequently I have the misfortune of having to listen to red-blooded religious christian Americans rant on in their 1950s comic book fashion about the evils of communism and atheism…these same nuts will state that a woman’s uterus should belong to the state and be regulated since it can provide children to increase the US population. They will also rant about how everyone’s duty is to get married and form families for the good of society and the state. Then they will worship capitalism and decry homosexuality in the next breath. I have fun pointing out that their silly views about children and childbearing for the state come off exactly like the views of the commie pinkos they decry. Instead of blank stares they usually stutter and say well in the case of sex and childbirth, it’s ok that christians and commies/fascists share the same views. The hipocrisy and ignorance ASTOUNDS me!
“Why don’t we hear them praise those old communist laws?”
Because they also hate communists. Ronald Regan, constantly praised by conservatives for his own conservatism, was staunchly anti-communist and called the Soviet Union the “evil empire”.
“It’s not their being communists that’s necessarily the problem, but their illiberal attitudes make them as valuable as religious fundamentalists when it comes to fulfilling political goals.”
I’m a little confused here. Isn’t communism ALWAYS illiberal, if by liberal you mean “supportive of personal freedoms”? Doesn’t it always lead to dissenters being murdered?
Romania did the whole “prolife” deal ALL the way. Needless to say, their beloved leader was killed by the teens who touched off the revolt.
Communism can be liberal- totalitarian communism isn’t. It is similar to the idea of a benevolent dictator- rare, but it has happened. Allende anyone?
Communism is state religion. There is no way it’s ever not going to immediately become abusive and dictatorial. There is very, very little difference (in terms of personal freedoms) between communism and a theocracy like Iran.
In Iran, you can’t blaspheme against the Quran. Under communism, you can’t blaspheme against the “Little Red Book” or the five-year-plan. Religion and communism are all the same collectivist nightmare. Anyone who harbors idealistic illusions about communism should spend a few years in Cuba or starving NoKo.
Does anyone know that Communism is basically public ownership of factories, farms, etc.? It has no necessary relationship to State Socialism, which was developed by Bismark and adopted by the Soviets. Governments have problems with homosexuality for the same reasons that relgions do. Part of it is squemishness, but more of it has to do with wanting to keep the world over-populated and desperate.
John Hanks is right,
If anyone actually looked into communism they’d see that it doesn’t neccesarily involve any of the things that 411314 and Blacksun seem to think it does.
As John says, it is merely a market plan, not an ideological one. You could have a pro-choice pro-homosexuality communist state and it would be no less communist than a homophobic anti-choice communist/socialist regime.
Don’t get me wrong, generally purely communist societies turn out bad, but has anyone ever tried a purely capitalist society that’s worked? Answer, no. (F.Y.I. before people start jumping down my throat to claim that all of the west is purely capitalist by a purely capitalist soceity I mean one with no public benefits/services of any kind and no market control whatsoever (for example no anti-monopoly rules).
I’ve noticed attitudes among Atheist conservatives differ greatly, some have told me they thing homosexuality is “unnatural”. My views on homosexuality changed drastically when I became an atheist. I had previously thought of it as immoral and opposed gay marriage, but opposed criminalizing it and had no real hatred toward gays in general. Now I don’t see anything wrong with it at all, and support gay marriage despite my otherwise conservative political leanings.
My experience with atheist conservatives is that they are libertarians who have a blind belief in a fantasy called the free-market system, which has never existed and will never exist. The world is always run by crooks, suckers, and lazy cowards. Man is an animal, not a perfumed aristocrat with money.
By labelling everyone we often do them a disservice; often we are being downright disresptful to them.
I think that school uniforms are a great idea, because I’m cheap and because I think it would help reduce some of the emotional trauma that accompanies puberty. On this, I’m a conservative. However, on many issues I’m liberal, even if not always in an activist way: gay marriage, abortion, separation of church and state, etc. But once an entire population agrees that gay marriage is fine, does this opinion continue to be liberal?
Canadian Con/Lib debate differs from that in the US, or in the Netherlands (or the Muslim world). In every society, what is being preserved by Cons and altered by Libs is different: in Canada I can be comfortable with Con policies, but in the US I know I would not, and would be considered very Liberal. In parts of Europe I would be considered quite Conservative.
It is quite possible to be an atheist and a conservative. It annoys me when some humanist groups and individuals assume that none of their members are anything other than left of centre.
Too many people think Russia was Communist
It was a State Capitalist.
Communist is Commune + ist. The idea of pure Communism is where the people all have equality and an equal input in Government. You want to see Capitalism as the answer. Go to most countries
and see the failure. Unless Government has some control over the financial sector you will end up with, as Adolf Hitler said. “A country that does not control its own economy cannot control its destiny.” America does not control its own finances, no more than the rest of the so called “Democracies.”
John Hanks says:
My experience with atheist conservatives is that they are libertarians who have a blind belief in a fantasy called the free-market system, which has never existed and will never exist. The world is always run by crooks, suckers, and lazy cowards. Man is an animal, not a perfumed aristocrat with money
You’d be wrong, Atheist conservatives are a diverse crowd. We all oppose the nanny state socialism of the left, who want to treat citizens like children, and control everyone. Beyond that, and of course a nonbelief in gods there is a lot of variety of views.