Mailbag: Islam is the True Path, Part 1
Subject: Religious Beliefs
I feel that it is my duty to urge you to investigate islam as this is the true path. We did not just appear on this planet by accident and science is a clumsy way of explaining our existence. There is a higher power and that is Allah (swt) and we are all accountable to him for our actions and beliefs.
Well, Mohsin doesn't waste any time - right there at the beginning we see the assumption that I, perhaps because I am an atheist, have never "investigated" Islam. Although I see similar claims from Christians, it is my experience that Muslims adopt such an attitude more quickly. It's not true of all, certainly, but an incredibly high percentage seem to be under the impression that no one could possibly reject Islam after having heard about it. This presumption informs a great deal of Muslims' attitudes towards other religions, not to mention those who don't accept any religion at all.
Then we have the very common claim that "science" isn't a very good means for explaining our existence - at this point, Mohsin could easily be a Christian writing to me. In point of fact, science does quite a lot to explain things - physics, chemistry, biology, and more. It is true that science has not yet provided any absolute and final answers about the fundamental nature of existence, but then again neither has religion.
Many religious believers think that they do have absolute and final answers, but in reality these "answers" are sheer speculation at best. In no way can any of these "answers" be tested or verified - and don't forget that with so many religions giving so many different and mutually exclusive "answers," there's simply no basis for preferring one religious "answer" over any other. This is not to say that none of these religious "answers" could possibly be true, but it does mean that we don't have any sound, rational reasons for accepting any of them. Contrast this with the answers offered by science on so many different issues - in those cases, we have ample reason to accept them.
The idea of being "accountable" for beliefs is rather interesting, although it seems to be a common attitude not only among Muslims, but Christians as well. As I have argued quite extensively elsewhere (here is a shorter version), beliefs are not really choices - and if they are not direct choices themselves, then it makes little sense to hold someone morally accountable for their beliefs. This is not to say that people can't be held accountable for the various choices them make which lead them to particular beliefs - but that really is another matter entirely.
Islam is the only true religion. Islam and the teachings of the Quran and the Hadeeth's are non-negotiable. I am only trying to save you from a woeful fate that would befall you if you do not recognise the existence of Allah (swt) and his messenger Muhammad (saw).
Well, at least Mohsin doesn't hide behind pleasant rhetoric - unlike so many other correspondents, Mohsin makes no attempt to hide the belief that all other religions are false and wrong. The question is, what reasons does Mohsin offer for me to actually believe this assertion? None, actually - at least not directly.
Don't forget, Mohsin said at the beginning that I should take the time to "investigate" Islam; it is most likely that Mohsin believes that once I do so, then I will naturally be lead to accept Islam immediately. As I explained above, there are so many Muslims who sincerely believe that no sane and mature person could possible reject Islam once being introduced to it.
This is false, of course - not only do many people reject Islam after learning about it, but in fact there are many people who reject Islam even after being Muslims, whether having been raised that way or having converted to Islam once adults. I have studied Islam quite extensively and I don't have any problem with not accepting it. I can, however, understand why some people might find it attractive in comparison to Christianity. It's theology is relatively simple and it's emphasis on orthopraxy rather than orthodoxy can be a welcome relief.
Note: the second part of this conversation appears tomorrow.
More selections from the Agnosticism / Atheism Mailbag...
Comments
“becoming an Islam”
Typo? I know it seems nitpicky, but the point you’re trying to make is that you have rejected Islam in spite of your investigation of it, and something like this could very well cause a reader unfamiliar with your general writings on Islam believe that you haven’t investigated it as thoroughly as you say you have.
I was recently discussing the adaptability of the Xian meme. Someone noted that in Xianity, although there are fundamentalist groups who condemn other groups, the great majority of Xians have an “agree to disagree” policy of tolerance with other Xians. So, “while _we_ may baptize infants and confirm them later, and you may baptize adults, and you may not baptize at all, the important thing is we all recognize Jesus as our personal Lord and Savior…”
In Islam, there are definitely larger areas of strict interpretations where that sort of leeway isn’t expected or provided.
In years to come, we pondered whether, in order to survive, Islam may not end up being as tolerant as Xianity–if it is to grow and be accepted by a wider audience. Will it’s inflexibility be the death of it? Or will it learn by Xianity’s example and simply morph to fit different audiences? Will Allah become the new “personal god” of the 21st century?
Islam like every other religion is a JOKE! Is-lame is the worst religion of them all today because it is bloody, repressive, and violent religion.
RE the statement:
“Islam is the True Path”
Ummm…By that, one would mean, I assume…
“Psycho Path”!…?
Urm, point of correction, Mr Cline: Moslems DO claim their god to be omnibenevolent (see Huda; she describes Allah as ‘all-compassionate’, as well as ‘all-just’ and ‘all-merciful’, thus fulfilling the defintion of omnibenevolence as given by most religious circles).
This lacks the characteristic of love — you can have compassion and mercy without love, and I tend to see reference to love in the context of omnibenevolence. If you believe that the above fulfills “the definition of omnibenevolence as given by most religious circles,” what are these circles and can you quote the definitions you say they are using?
Sorry, forgot about love. DUH! Yes, I have heard Moslems talk about the love of Allah. Thanks for pointing that little schoolboy howler out for me, by the way!
In case you’re going to demand quotes to support my above assertion that ‘I have heard Moslems talk about the love of Allah’, I heard the Moslem scholar Tariq Ramadan say to John Humphrys in an interview in the BBC series ‘Humphrys in search of God’ that his “relationship to (Allah) was one of love”. Now, it is safe to presume that Mr Ramadan believes that Allah is all-merciful, all-just and all-compassionate (there is a slight chance that he doesn’t). There is the possibility this ‘relationship’ might not be mutual love (i.e. that, in this relationship between Mr Ramadan and his god, the former might invariably be on the giving end of the love and the latter on the receiving). However, I very much doubt that such a relationship based on one-way love would be sustainable. At least, I doubt that a relationship based on one-way love on the part of the human would be sustainable. A relationship based on one-way love on the part of an all-loving god might well be. Although it is often said that if you love a family member, you love them unconditionally, regardless of whether they return that love or not, I doubt if in practice people in general are really able to continue relationships with relatives who have treated them like dog excrement (by that I mean, physical abuse to the point of GBH, sexual abuse, etc) or have murdered another relative, although I know of individuals who can. Similarly, if Tariq Ramadan’s relationship with his god was based on one-way love on his part, I doubt he would have sustained for years as he has done. I certainly doubt that he would give his god the devotion to obey the command to always raise his drinking recepticle with his right hand. There is of course another detail to be taken into consideration, namely the Islamic belief in an afterlife (i.e. Mr Ramadan loves his god in the hope of getting into paradise). However, I think it is an insult to Tariq Ramadan’s grasp of logic to suggest that he would want an afterlife with his god if he didn’t believe his god loved him. Thus, I think I can fairly safely conclude that at least the mainstream of the world’s Islamic community believes in an omnibenevolent god.
Actually, all and perfectly loving would be most appropriate. Best would be citations from the Qur’an or Hadith which either explicitly endorse that or at least provide an obvious and solid foundation for it. A single ambiguous statement from a single scholar isn’t quite sufficient.
Apparently one of the 99 names of Allah is Al Wudud (the loving, the kind one). I know it doesn’t say ‘all-loving’ but that is the nearest I could find.
Give us a break. Allah-the loving??
Sura (2:191-193) - “And slay them wherever ye find them….
Sura (2:216) - “Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you….
Sura (3:56) - “As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony…
Sura (4:89) -… if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them…
Sura (4:104) - “And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they suffer pain as you suffer pain…
Sura (8:12) - “I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them”
Sura (9:5) - “So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them…
Sura (9:30) - “And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them…
Sura (61:4) - “Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way”
Hadith;-”If anyone insults me, then any Muslim who hears this must kill him immediately.”
Allah is no more loving than his doppelganger, the arch serial killer, Yahweh cum God.
It is I, the one who previously went by the name ‘atheistturneddeist’.
Yes, what we find in the ‘Holy books’ relating to the gods who are supposedly their source COMPLETELY CONTRADICTS the believers’ claim about those gods
Okay. Third time lucky. As I was saying and as Pat has pointed out, the ‘Holy books’ and believers in the religions give inconsistent and self-contradictory impressions of the gods that are supposed to be the sources of the books, on the one hand claiming that these gods are all-merciful, all-just, all-loving, etc, etc, etc, while on the other hand simultaneously claiming that Yahweh/Jehova/Allah or whoever the god may be sends non-followers of the religion in question to hell, effectively suggesting that this VERY SAME, so-called loving god either ordered or personally carried out acts of genocide, etc. (Well done for pointing that out, Pat, by the way! Excellent!)
My point, though, was not that Allah ACTUALLY IS loving, benevolent or anything along those lines. (Indeed, as Pat has vividly illustrated, he IS ANYTHING BUT). Rather, my point was that Moslems CLAIM their god to be omnibenevolent and hence loving. (I know I have still yet to justify any assertion that Moslems claim their god to be ALL-loving yet, so my assertion about Allah’s alleged omnibenevolence remains not quite fully supported. The quotation that I presented to Mr Cline was the best I could manage, short of trapsing through Google and without a copy of the Q’uran at hand.)