Comment of the Week: Is the Darwin Fish Intolerant?
I actually read an article this morning from a link posted to another list. The writer called Darwin fish on car bumpers "intolerant." He equated it with personal attack and said it was the same as putting a Star of David on your car with the word "usury" in the center.
I'm stunned at the level of ridiculous reach people will go to to try and defend their right to be offended by someone not agreeing with them. The Darwin fish is not a cross with the word "idiot" written across it. It's a symbol that says "I don't accept creationism, I accept evolution." And it's no more offensive than the original Jesus fish should be to an atheist (which is no more than you want it to be).
[original post]
I wouldn't say that the Darwin Fish is completely neutral — it's not the same as a cross with "idiot" written across it, but it's not quite as neutral as a statement on behalf of science and evolution, either. The Christian fish is used instead of something else precisely because opposition to science and evolution comes primarily from conservative, evangelical Christians — generally speaking, the same group of Christians which is likely to make a point of advertising their Christianity through things like a fish on their car. If the pirimary opposition to evolution and science came from Scientologists, Quakers, or some other group, do you think that the Darwin Fish would even have been created?
So the Darwin Fish is a play on symbols which is designed to give a poke at Christian tribalism, the advertising of religious loyalty, and the destructive anti-science activism in politics and culture which has been conducted by Christians over the past decades. The Christian fish isn't quite a sacred image in the same way that a cross is, but it comes close and as a consequence the Darwin fish is nearly an attempt to desacralize a religious symbol in order to make a political and cultural statement.
It's analogous to how a political cartoon might depict a person using a cross to attack someone as a statement about how Christians use their dogma or political power to oppress outsiders. It's not surprising if Christians would dislike either image, but simply disliking it isn't sufficient to deem the image as "intolerant" or a "personal attack." Just because someone feels offended doesn't mean that they have a legitimate reason to feel offended and it certainly doesn't mean that others should modify their behavior or speech so that this person can stop feeling offended.
When someone says that they are offended by something like the Darwin Fish, it's important to notice that the conversation is now suddenly all about them: their feelings, their beliefs, and why they should be treated with more deference. Absent are any questions from them about why the Darwin Fish is being used, what it is supposed to communicate, what points are being made, etc. A person who insists on placing their feelings of offense at the center of conversation is not only a person who has stopped listening to others, but a person who may not have been trying to listen very hard to begin with.
Comments
I view them exactly the same as Jesus Fish on the back of Christian cars. Or any bumper sticker professing a political view. (Obama for President, Free Tibet) Or a philosophical view. (Mean People Suck) Or a preference for a particular type of music or band. (Phish) Or accessories. (Trailer hitch testicles) And even down to type of car and color. It is an expression of identity.
Christians who claim Darwin Fish are “intolerant” are being extremely hypocritical. They get to put something on the back of their cars proclaiming to the world that they believe in Jesus, why shouldn’t others be able to proclaim their belief in evolution?
I used to have a Darwin fish on my car, but I took it off because I was worried about some idiot keying my car.
I think the Darwin fish is a dig at a subset of Christianity. Not all Christians oppose science/evolution. I doubt that Christians that support science/evolution would find the Darwin fish offensive. If a Christian does find the Darwin fish offensive, then I suspect they identify themselves with the anti-science/evolution subset of Christianity, and I hope they are offended. I have no tolerance for the anti-science/evolution religious.
Let’s not forget the one-upsmanship of that fish that eats the Darwin fish that a lot of creationists put on their cars.
What I want to know is:
Where can I get a cross with ‘IDIOT’ over it? I’d love one of those. Put it where the ‘INRI’ sign goes.
Steve “May Lack Subtlety” James
Steve: Or an “idiot” fish?
Seriously, I wanted to add something to my prior post. Another atheist at the other list pointed out that the article noted “Darwin/Evolve Fish.”
I honed in on the Darwin aspect, but didn’t really focus on the Evolve fish. I can see how the Evolve fish would be considered a personal dig. But the writer should have separated them out to avoid confusion and not lumped the Darwin fish in with the Evolve fish like that.
I wasn’t trying to take the author out of context–and I still don’t believe I have. He didn’t say the Darwin fish was any different. But I wanted to clarify that point just in the interest of fairness.
Thanks!
I wonder if the xians offended by the Darwin fish would also be offended by the bumper sticker I saw the other day: “Born OK the first time.”
I have a Flying Spaghetti Monster logo on my car. I think the Darwin Fish is clever, but the FSM logo makes a statement about religious dogma in general and how goofy it is to advertise moral symbolism to other random motorists. And I think the FSM logo is less likely to inspire vandalism, as it a little more obscure and not as politically charged as the J-fish/D-fish.
I have a Darwin Fish on both of my cars. Of course, I also live in an area where stats show 40% are non-religious.
People don’t put bumper stickers on new cars any more, so it’s time to move to back window stickers.
The Darwin fish is a cheeky reply to the big club Christian solidarity fish. It calls their bluff. All symbols, slogans, flags, etc. are incoherent stupid generalizations worthy of a child, although they have great emotional appeal. They should always be deconstructed and defanged.
i’m with you Darwin Finch! Behold my FSM logo and tremble thou heathens! Ramen.
Being offended is the risk you take when you live in a free society and around other people. The more people around you, the higher the risk. Being offended is usually a sign of insecurity. If your god is so awesome a plastic thingy on the back of one’s car shouldn’t be a threat. Also, i think that what really offends Xians is that non-Xians are claiming their rights and making their presence/numbers known. That terrifies them. Every person who doesn’t believe as they do is a threat to their fragile world view.
There is a BIG difference between being critical and being rude, as some here have said already. The difference is in the intent. It’s hard to predict, or be responsible for how someone else reacts to something.
I can hardly get from the car to the curb without spotting something that offends me. No one worries very much about my bruised feelings, and I don’t see why Christians should get a free pass.
There are already plenty of people who think atheism is essentially anti-Christian, and the Darwin fish may add to their confusion on that point. Its value as an amusement is real but minor.
There is one component to the Christian message that is inescapable and is entirely antagonistic to the nonbeliever. “God” will punish you after death (and possibly during this life), in the most inhumane and meanest ways possible for eternity. It is the ultimate in passive aggressive statements and passive aggressive, by its very nature, conceals itself.
That hiding may not be readily apparent day to day but it is always there and any utterance or symbol still conveys it in the passive aggressive style. The Darwin fish attempts to be the anodyne to the hidden pessimistic message of the xian fish and therefore its message is one of self respect.
I’m putting a Darwin fish on my car. I sincerely hope that it is offensive to conservative, Christian fundamentalist evangelicals.
If they vandalize my car, it will prove once again what hypocrits they are.
I am a Christian who believes in evolution… therefore a fish symbol (representing Christ) with Darwin in it seems perfectly acceptable to me… I was going to get one but now feel it might look as though I am an atheist.. which I am not! I dont mind others being atheists though!