Jacob Stein, who calls himself the Jewish "Philosopher," writes:
First of all, atheists themselves emphatically assert that atheism is not a religion. Atheism just means not believing in any gods. The funny thing is, that when you ask for more details, atheists cannot define what they mean by “gods”. What is apparent is that atheists don’t seem to be bothered by the idea of an intelligent creator.
No, what's funny is that Jacob Stein links to a post where he asked these questions and the first comment was written by an atheist who defined what he meant by "gods" and specifically stated that what he disagreed with was the idea that an "intelligent creator" exists. In other words, the reality which Stein himself links to is exactly the opposite of what he is trying to assert. English is his first language, so that can't be an excuse. Does he simply hope that no one will follow the link?
Perhaps Stein should be given a little credit for realizing that atheism is simply not believing in any gods, but how hard should that be? How much credit should a person be given for realizing that theism simply means believing in at least one god of some sort? This isn't rocket science or deep philosophy.
Secondly, atheists seem to be invariably highly selfish people. It is apparently impossible to find a well-documented case of an atheist who was kind, honest, sober and sexually responsible. ...Many people, especially young males leading secure lives in developed countries, feel no need for the comfort of religion. Furthermore, they are attracted to a very selfish, self-indulgent way of life, an attraction perhaps encouraged by viewing pornography. Therefore, in order to remove any feelings of guilt, they simply deny the existence of any divine judgment or afterlife.
Atheism is not a philosophy; it is a symptom of narcissism and hedonism. Calling atheism a religion is like calling alcoholism a religion. It’s a bad choice, a moral failing, perhaps a disease. Until the 18th century “atheist” was usually simply an insult meaning “debauched libertine”. This may be close to the truth.
Jacob Stein lists a few high-profile atheists through the years whose behavior falls short of his personal religious standards and argues, based on those few examples, that there are no atheists who are "kind, honest, sober, and sexually responsible." That's no better than taking as examples him and a few other dishonest people who happen to be Jewish and arguing, based on that, that "it is apparently impossible to find a well-documented case of a Jew who is honest, trustworthy, and morally responsible." Indeed, were I to do such a thing I'd likely be accused of anti-Semitism — and with good reason, too. Stein is demonstrating the exact same sort of bigoted attitude, but towards atheists.
What's both sad and ironic is that this is that Jacob Stein stole an image I created to illustrate a post he wrote recently. There's no link to the original and no credit to the person who created it. For all his readers know, he created he because he doesn't indicate in any way that anyone else was responsible for the image. This is a copyright violation and a form of theft, yet Jacob Stein feels free to lecture atheists about their morality.
If the irony weren't already thick enough, the poster was created to satirize the common attitude among religious theists that people need God to be moral, the position Jacob Stein is advocating despite the clear evidence that neither his religion nor his theism actually help in the ethics department.
What an obscenity that a Jew would post an article that unfairly and negatively stereotypes a group based on their religious stance.
You’d think a Jew would know better than this, based on his cultural history of persecution by other groups who used this same means to justify persecuting Jews.
Ironic as well that a Jew would stereotype another group as “selfish.” Again, isn’t that a rampant stereotype hurled at Jews–stingey? I’m amazed.
It reminds me of persecuted minorities who jump on the bandwagon against gay marriage. I just shake my head and think, “How can you turn around and do the same thing to someone else? You, of all people, should know the harm that comes from this.”
I see Jewish P also doesn’t know the difference between “…property rights over another human being’s body…” and “…a committed relationship…”
http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2007/12/atheist-of-week.html
“atheists seem to be invariably highly selfish people. ”
And therefore, gods exist!
Brilliant philosopher, indeed.
Further reading shows “Jacob Stein” was given up at birth by his mother who was never married to his atheist father. Something like that is bound to leave someone fairly twisted.
http://jacobstein-mystory.blogspot.com/
John: or maybe he believes that a “committed relationship” entails “property rights over another human being’s body,” i.e. marriage turns women into the property of her husband. I would say that any man who thinks of any women as “property” is ipso facto excluded from the body of people who can be regarded as kind, moral, or decent.
“Therefore, in order to remove any feelings of guilt, they simply deny the existence of any divine judgment or afterlife.”
OK. So a cunning atheist in the full and certain knowledge that a wrathful god will judge him and inflict eternal torment, elects to pretend that this is not so simply in order to be uninhibited by feelings of guilt in the pursuit of his “narcissism and hedonism”? Seems unlikely to me.
Anyway there seems to be no shortage of nacissim and hedonism in religious circles, so much so that it seems down the ages to have been an occupational hazard of the priesthood.
http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/directory/c/catholic_priest_sex_scandal.asp
After reading this I felt like I witnessed a car wreck. Jacob Stein….Owned.
Jacob Stein is a singularly poor philosopher. Note that I was incorrect in my earlier post — his argument is not that atheists are selfish, therefore gods exist. However, it’s nearly as much of a non sequitur as that:
1) atheists are selfish
2) atheists like porn
3) atheism has faulty premises
4) atheists don’t think atheism is a religion
Therefore, atheism is not a religion.
Now, I must admit to little classroom training in logic (books, a college class in formal logic, and my own thinking), but somehow it doesn’t seem that the conclusion follows from the premises. In fact, it seems like at least two of the premises are likely untrue and irrelevant, and the only one with any persuasive force would be that atheists don’t consider atheism a religion, but clearly this can’t be logically dispositive.
The lack of true philosophical logic applied to arguments against atheism never ceases to amaze me! The irony of failed and circular logic used to support illogical faith(s) and demonize logical evaluations of religion(s) and faith(s) such as atheism is not lost on me nor is it lost on Austin or his readers. I find it laughable when the religious sort, in order to support their fallible arguments against atheism, resort to name-calling and accusations of poor character and moral standard. As I’ve observed, many religious folks are as dishonest and morally corrupt as their accusations! If my lack of belief in a higher authority, creator, supreme being or “god” is selfish or hedonistic then what is blindly grasping straws of unfounded faith despite logic, proof and reason?
The best part is that these poor sorts of arguments supporting religion and faith are entirely lost on the logical, free-thinking atheist and do nothing but inflate the religious ego with piety and pride for all its superiority over the savage, hedonistic atheist!
I just read the article that contained the stolen image.
Serious piece of crap and a terrible fallacy of relevance as well. If we must believe the author, the fact that the Netherlands is a liberal society today is the reason that the Holocaust had such devastating results in the Netherlands 60 years ago?
And if he meant to say that the holocaust is the result of the Dutch history of religious tolerance and plurality… does he actually mean to say that things would have been better if Jews hadn’t been so well accepted and integrated in Dutch society?
The mind boggles…
I like to twit believers sometimes by telling them, “Oh, it’s not that I don’t think a god could exist, just that I don’t think your exists.”
Wow, he’s an intensely arrogant guy. i’m going to have fun with him.
Feel free to read the most vicious parts of the Talmud. Looks like Judaism is pretty sick too.
Atheists tend to dismiss religionists. They are like grown ups to children because they have been there and done that. They are thoroughly acquainted with the same old lies.
I am always polite. I feel like a kitten with a new toy.
After Kissinger, Neocons, 911, Israel, Likud, and all the rest, I have to strive mightily against anti-semetism. Judaism is only a shell for these filth. The vast majority of Jews are just suckers and lazy cowards like all the rest of us. The noisy crooks must not be allowed to pretend that they speak for the rest.
Needlsss to say, many men and women who are ethnically Jewish are also atheists. This would include many scientists.
I need to look up the stats on child pornographers & pedophiles. Wonder what percentage of those are atheists? I must be a failure as an atheist as I do not like porn and I am kind to animals and other nice people! Oh, I didn’t know atheism had to have doctrine or premises! What’s so hard about believers understanding the word “no” when they ask if we believe their fantasies?!
I didn’t know that it bothered you that I copied that picture. If it really does, email and I’ll take it off.
You have it backwards, Stein. You have a legal and ethical obligation to ask for permission to use the work of others. Expecting others to contact you to tell you to cease your illegal and unethical behavior – and without even an apology – merely compounds the immorality of it.
Hey, thanks for posting this. I am unfortunately familiar with Jacob Stein, as I have a Jewish atheist blog that he used to frequent until I blocked him because of his vicious and disturbing comments. The man has serious issues, including but not limited to vehemently attacking atheists and all ex-religious Jews like myself (which makes me wonder if he is secretly a non-believer), contradicting himself regularly as you mentioned, and bashing pornography so often and so strongly that one wonders is he is secretly addicted to it, similar to the way that some of the staunchest homophobes are, in fact, gay.
I actually told him at one point that I am an atheist who does not get drunk, smoke, do drugs, have promiscuous sex, etc and I and those who know me consider me very kind, honest, and ethical. Do you think he took that into consideration and revised his theory on immoral and debauched atheists? Nope. He is just so full of crap, it’s amazing he’s still alive at all.
After reading the rebuttle posted, i feel as if it was a very proper response to the otherwise ignorant comments that assume that atheists are bad people. However, i fail to see a proper argument on behalf of the atheist side as to what a “god” is. Is it truly impossible that there is an intelligent design? It was stated that the world was so complex, right down to DNA, that it was like a program, and every one knows that a program has a programmer. Darwin stated that “to believe that the eye was the result of evolution, is absurd to the highest degree”. These are two simple arguments that I have yet to see and atheist retort to properly or without answering my question with a question of their own. Believe me, there are some instances when i believe that atheists lack common sense. How can one look at the world, notice the way it works, their everyday life, their own body, and say it was just all a result of (and please excuse the sarcasm) nothing that was nothing that collided and turned into something that evolved into monkeys that became human…. See where we can both be ignorant about the others belief system? Now, I am not critiquing individuals here, but when you compare atheists to adults and theists to children, you defeat the entire sense of the argument by being arrogant, when you criticize Mr. Stein for being arrogant. I inquire that you truly look at your belief and question your logic as to think of this. Out of all the knowledge in the universe, how much of it would you know? 1%? less? Consider that in that 99% or more, that there is information that you dont know and that because you dont know this your idea could be wrong. Humans are wrong a good number of the time, what makes the scientific theory made by a human stating that the world was created by a “Big Bang” (NOTE: in order for the big bang theory to be correct, all modern knowledge of science must be incorrect, all knowledge of how atoms works, how gravity works must be wrong. Your TV set cant work, your radio, your car, the list goes on). But once again, look at how little we truly do know, and how the only possible explanation for how the world operates and was formed must come from an intelligent programmer or designer. Thank you! and i hope i wasnt offensive! just simply stating my belief system!
That task belongs to believers.
There’s no evidence of it.
OK, prove that that’s the case for the universe.
No, he didn’t.
They aren’t arguments. The first is an unsupported assertion and the second is a lie.
Point to an atheist who says exactly that.
Yes, I could be. Can you point to any specific evidence which indicates that I likely am wrong about this specific issue?
The massive amounts of evidence behind it.
OK, prove it.
OK, prove it.
You stated a number of unsupported claims and at least one lie. So your “belief system” is partially unsupported and partially false.
I have posted on the original web site referred to, and hope others will do so as well. This Jew who hates all “greedy selfish” atheists is a piece of work, indeed.
Darwin stated that “to believe that the eye was the result of evolution, is absurd to the highest degree”. These are two simple arguments that I have yet to see and atheist retort to properly or without answering my question with a question of their own. — YesIfollowJesus on October 31, 2010 at 10:53 pm
Apparently you did not hang around to see if any atheists were able to “retort” without answering your question with a question. Maybe this is why you’ve never seen it happen. You rattle off a line of nonsense and then run away before anyone can point out the obvious.
Believe me, there are some instances when i believe that atheists lack common sense. — YesIfollowJesus on October 31, 2010 at 10:53 pm
You mean the kind of common sense that says you can find out what Darwin really said by actually reading Darwin? I did this when I was 11 years old. How old are you?
See where we can both be ignorant about the others belief system? — YesIfollowJesus on October 31, 2010 at 10:53 pm
I was a Christian for years, and I still attend church every week because my elderly father is unable to drive himself. I know more than a little about the Christian belief system.
Have you ever spent even a single hour investigating what atheists really say? What Darwin really said?
There is a possibility that god exists…based on available evidence it is more probable that there is no god
“Is it truly impossible that there is an intelligent design?”
I’m a retired prison English teacher with only liberal arts degrees, but even I could give you a list of things in nature that, if designed, weren’t very intelligently designed.