There wasn't a gender gap in the answers: Both men and women like seeing "Merry Christmas" in store windows, according to Scott Rasmussen, president of Rasmussen Reports, an independent polling company. But from a political perspective, there was a sleighful of difference: 88 percent of Republicans wanted to see "Merry Christmas," while just 57 percent of Democrats favored it. ...
The Rasmussen survey of 1,000 adults, taken in mid-November, found that 57 percent said they will attend a Christian religious service on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day this year. Fewer than a third (30 percent) said they wouldn't be going to a special service. Women are more likely to attend a Christmas service than men.
Source: The Washington Times (via: Carpetbagger)
The political difference is quite striking — and very much in line with other poll differences that I've seen over the past few years. It's not a surprise that people who identify as Republican would prefer to see the Christian seasonal holiday singled out for special recognition while other religious and secular holidays are ignored. It's become integral to Republican political fortunes that being a Republican is associated with being a Christian — or at least pretending that Christianity deserves special treatment in America.
By the same token, it's heartening to see that far fewer Democrats support such special treatment for Christianity, though to be honest it's a shame that 57% of Democrats continue to think like Republicans. I guess it will be a while before a majority of Democrats realize that when a number of holidays occur around the same time of year, there's no justification for singling out the Christian one for special privileges or recognition. I fear that we'll never see the day when a majority of Republicans come to this realization.
Scott Krugman, a spokesman for the National Retail Federation, said the "Merry Christmas" versus "Happy Holidays" issue has been around for a few years. "I don't think it's a new issue" for the industry, Mr. Krugman said yesterday.
It's been around for quite a lot longer than a "few years," though the Christian Nationalists have made a much bigger deal about it these past few years. It's nice to see someone stating publicly that for at least some people, this isn't and shouldn't be a big deal. Hopefully over the course of time, more and more people will realize that the future of Christianity doesn't rest on, and won't even be affected by, whether they hear "Merry Christmas" rather than "Happy Holidays" from random strangers and larger international retail conglomerates. Or is that just wishful thinking on my part?
This is all getting so sad. The religious right is hate mongering and so many others are following suit.
I have a Christmas Tree because it is festive. It is not a tree for Christ’s Mass. But it is called a Christmas Tree, just like Friday no longer refers to the Norris godess Frigg.
I say both Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays. To me they terms referring to the secular Holiday season.
By the way, if we are splitting hairs on definitions – didn’t Holiday originally mean Holy Day. So was is tht offensive to the religious right but not other groups.
It is simply getting so silly.
ee:
That’s the point. Exactly what you said. Things only mean whatever meaning you give them.
Xians don’t see it that way, however. And this sets off a chain reaction that ends up like Seuss’s Sneeches.
I’m having a holiday party at my house. It’s a Winter Fest theme. I’ve invited theists and atheists. One person was someone I’d never met. He RSVP’ed that he was looking forward to celebrating a godless holiday.
When I read his reply, I recognized two things right away:
1. He was assuming it was a atheist party–and I was assuming he’d not assume that!
and
2. I was mortified at what some of my other guests might think when they read the RSVP…”Is there something Tracie neglected to tell me about this party?”
I e-mailed him immediately to correct the mistake. And I explained that unlike the Solstice Party sponsored by our local atheist association–my party was not going to be 100 percent Christ free. I am having Christmas music and songs about Christ–”Oh Holy Night,” “God Rest Ye Merry Gentlement,” Etc. AND we will have Christmas DVDs playing…”A Christmas Story,” “Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer,” “Charlie Brown Christmas,” and so on.
Those things are part of my upbringing that I have no problem with. However, I know and respect that some atheists do have issues–becuase of the Christian promotion to hijack the holiday for Jesus.
I understand their concerns and points. I just don’t share them. And I needed to warn my friend, whom I had never met, that in case he is one of those atheists who is four-square against Christmas, he might want to change his RSVP.
His reply was, “Oh, big deal!, I have Rudolph on DVD, too!”
-th
***
I should clarify, when I said, “Xians don’t see it that way…” I should have qualified that. SOME Xians don’t see it that way, mainly the one’s Austin is addressing in these many seasonal articles.
It is amazing how much stuff people can get from milking a rat.
Xmas is no longer a pleasure. I used to love the lights and decorations and the merriment, but have come to hate the way some of my friends, normally very nice people, feel Xmas is being hijacked by the politically correct. Being lucky enough to live in a very diverse area, I can safely say it is ONLY the Christians who are vocal and angry. And about nothing too! Xmas is obviously still everywhere. The worst thing I’ve heard from a non-Christian is that they can’t stop humming Xmas carols. I’m just no longer interested in the whole double-standard and would rather hibernate. By the way, I prefer Happy Holidays, but that also has made many hopping made around here. It’s Merry Xmas or nothing, so I no longer say anything.
What is it that makes people reject god? What makes the public reject they’re giver, their creator, their provider America’s founder and foundation? But yet they say it will offend nonbelievers, well that decision offends Christians!! Why don’t they think of that? What is wrong with god? But yet they are taking more and more away from us and giving more freedom to other people, I thought this was a free country. I thought we could express our beliefs freely without fear, but yet we can’t say merry Christmas or if teachers witness to others than they will be arrested, and we can’t bring bibles to public school, and instead of BC and AD (before Christ and after death) now it’s BCE and CE (before current era and current era) so now they are forbidding the Christian faith from the public. Do you see anything wrong with that?
That’s like asking “what makes people reject elves?” If you don’t see any good reasons to believe in any gods, then there is nothing to reject.
Strange, but I seem to remember America’s actual founders relying on the people, not any gods.
My atheism offends you? I think you need to grow thicker skin, then. You can’t be very confident or secure in your beliefs if you’re offended by disagreement.
What is wrong with elves?
What freedoms, precisely, have been taken away from you?
Agents of the state don’t have the authority to proselytize to children placed in their care.
Sure you can.
That’s what’s used in academic literature.
Indeed: what I see that’s wrong is your claim that the “Christian faith” is being forbidden from anyone. What I do see, however, is that Christian beliefs, traditions, and assumptions are no longer being privileged — and there’s nothing at all wrong with that.
I have never understood the logic behind “Happy Holidays”. Allegedly it is used to be more inclusive of non-Christians. However, other religions do not seem to be rushing to rename their own Holy Days as Holidays. Either all religious festivities are “Holidays” or none. Call me cynical if you like, but I think this is more about including people so they can spend money at the world’s most consumerist “religious” celebration. I am a confirmed agnostic by the way and not remotely right wing.
Holiday is the English word for “a day fixed by law or custom on which ordinary business is suspended in commemoration of some event or in honor of some person.” It is not a proper noun and thus shouldn’t be capitalized. What this means is that most religions’ holy days will, by definition, be holidays. Frankly I can’t think of any holy days that don’t qualify as holidays, but I suppose there might be a few. It thus isn’t necessary for a “religion” a some sort of movement or institution to “rush” to use the term “holiday” — in the English speaking world, that label automatically applies when the definition fits.
I reject the anthropomorphic God because it has a long rap sheet and no great thing could ever be similar to man. I remain intellectually agnostic in regard to an immananent or transcendental God.. Both seem to be very close or very far in a beautiful way. And above all, nobody can speak for it and it does no meddle unless invited.
If there is a ‘GOD’why would he let things happen?
e.g. 9-11,little children dying of cancer,
malnutrition in countries that don’t have a chance.
My question is what is GOD?
Can anybody prove it?
I find it quite amusing that christians don’t know the history of their religion. If they did, they’d know that most of the characters, stories, philosophy, etc. in their bible were “borrowed” from older, so-called “pagan,” religions.
Everything to do with “christmas” is pagan in origin: Jesus, decorated tree, mistletoe, gift giving.
If the pagans haven’t complained about the theft of their traditions, I see no reason why christians can’t be at least as generous by at least acknowledging that others have celebrations at the same times of year.
This is all wrong Christmas is christmas is christmas. Why are people having a hard time with it. if we were in another contry we wouldn’t try to abolish their holiday what ever it may be called. If you don’t like it don’t look, this is our country our tradition our culture… deal with it and stop acting like children pouting,.
And there’s little about modern Christmas that is Christian.
Actually, Christians developed Christmas by abolishing pagan holidays and taking over their traditions.
So, you don’t think non-Christians are “real” Americans?
The main problem that I have with the politically correct Nazis out there is that if I say “Merry Christmas” to a person it is somehow not okay. This is America and one of our fundamental liberties is the freedom of speech. Saying Merry Christmas around the time of this Christian holiday hurts no one. Trying to blend a whole host of other religious holidays into one homogeneous mass seems to reduce the importance of the individual holidays.
To me the religions take a back seat to traditions and history. This homogenization of religious holidays is akin to the removing for example religious monuments on public grounds. It is robbing future generations of the history of our nation. Like it or not Christianity has been a common theme since before the creation of the Union. We shouldn’t try to erase our past.
The bottom line is that I don’t appreciate people trying to censor me. I will continue to say Merry Christmas because 95% of the people take it as I mean it. This includes my Jewish friends, Muslims, and the few Hindu that I know. The only people that are truly troubled by “Merry Christmas” are the atheists. Since the atheists only make up around 15% of the population they might as well get used to the idea that “Merry Christmas” isn’t going anywhere.
# Happy Holidays – Canada, United States
# Buon Natale – Italian for Happy Christmas
# Buone Feste – Italian for Happy Holidays
# Feliz Natal – Portuguese for Happy Christmas
# Boas Festas – Portuguese for Happy Parties
# Bon Nadal – Catalan for Happy Christmas
# Feliz Navidad – Castilian lit. “Happy Nativity”
# Felices Fiestas – Castilian for Happy Parties
# Season’s Greetings – United Kingdom Christmas cards, not usually spoken
# Merry Christmas – United Kingdom, Australia, United States, The phrase is often immediately followed by and a Happy New Year.
# Happy Christmas – United Kingdom
# Merry Xmas – Written English (often informal), referencing the Greek word ???????, for Christ.
# Merry Yuletide, Good Yuletide or Happy Yuletide – English, can generally refer to the period of cultural festivities surrounding Yule, Winter solstice, Christmas and the New Year.
# Merry Midwinter – English greeting, generally for the period of the winter solstice.
# God jul – Danish, Norwegian, Swedish, lit. “Good Yule”
# Hyvää joulua – Finnish
# Prettige Kerstdagen en een gelukkig nieuwjaar – Dutch
# Geseënde Kersfees en ‘n voorspoedige nuwe jaar – Blessed Christmas and a prosperous New Year – Afrikaans speaking South Africans
# Glædelig jul – Danish
# Joyous Yule – Usually a Wiccan or Neopagan greeting for the Winter solstice
# Joyeux Noël – France, Quebec, Louisiana, Switzerland
# Frohe Weihnachten/Fröhliche Weihnachten – German for Merry Christmas
# Mele Kalikimaka – Hawaiian, is preferred over the traditional American “Merry Christmas” in the U.S. state of Hawaii
Everyone knows the only way to get everyone to say Merry Christmas all the time is through song… cheerful musical song, like This Guy’s Christmas album…
http://www.thisguysingschristmas.maltesemedia.com/
Well, I’m a Christian and I wrote a blog on what I think about this subject. Feel free to check it out! My feelings are, does it really matter?
http://biblebeating.blogspot.com/2008/12/merry-christmas-vs-happy-holidays-does.html
Hey, Jazz. A. D. means anno domini (in the year of our Lord) in Latin, not after death. I am a lifelong Catholic. I am fully able to celebrate Christmas any way I please and so is everyone else in America. People on both sides of the argument expend way too much energy worrying about this non-issue. If you are one of these people, I have three words for you: GET A LIFE1
Happy Holiday sucks its Merry Christmas if you dont like it leave and never come back lets go to your country And do you this way and see how you like it.i bet it will be a Different story then. Oh yes i wish not born on your stupid Happy holidays i was born on christmas and proud of it please leave and never come back. oh yes you over Sea people can start paying some taxes Alan
Why?
So, you don’t celebrate any other holidays like Thanksgiving and New Year’s? What about people who do celebrate other holidays?
Why? Are you so disturbed at the prospect of not having one holiday singled out for extra recognition that you don’t want anyone in the entire country who might fail to do that for you?
Sorry, but I can’t make any sense out of that.
So, I guess you’re offended if someone wishes you a “happy birthday” instead of “Merry Christmas”?
That doesn’t make any sense either.
If you are atheists than why do you care what is said? The only time I don’t say Merry Christmas is when I am speaking with someone who may be Jewish, then I say Happy Holidays or if I know Happy Hanukkah!
Those are the only two holidays I mean if I say Happy Holidays. Kwanza was invented in 1966, so it is not relevant. So to all you atheists who need a reason to fight,
Merry Christmas!!!
Sorry, I don’t see how the two are related.
Other religions ignored????
Are you serious? How about other demonic groups ignored. ie witches and trolls on Halloween? We only talk about the ghosts and psychotic murderers. So we should say Happy Holidays on Halloween!
What about the fact that at the original Thanks Giving dinner, there were Protestants and Indians present. No other religions were there. Should we call that day Happy Holidays too?
Yes. Are you genuinely unaware of all the other holidays that occur around the same time of year?
Halloween is the only holiday that is being celebrated at that time, so it’s appropriate to single it out. What’s more, Halloween isn’t celebrated as a religious holiday anymore so no religions are being singled out for special treatment.
No, because Thanksgiving is the only holiday being celebrated at that time — so once again, it’s appropriate to single it out. What’s more, Thanksgiving is not a religious holiday so no religions are being singled out for special treatment.
Seriously. I can almost guarantee that about 75% of atheists celebrate Christmas. Tree, lights, dinner, presents and I’m sure in most cases, Santa. If those who don’t are so pissed off because someone says “Merry Christmas,” get over it. I don’t see why this is a big deal. It’s not so much as “special treatment” as it is said because most of the nation is Christian. I am Christian, I celebrate the birth of Jesus on December 25th, and if you don’t, sorry. And don’t say Christians are the ones being so vocal and angry about it. Why do you think the decision was made??? No… People got bored so they said… Hey… Let’s just say happy holidays!!! WRONG. Atheists AND OTHERS complained. Sorry that Most Americans celebrate christmas, no matter how commercial it has become, but if you don’t like it, ignore it. If someone came up to me, assumed I was Jewish, and said “happy hanukah,” I would politely say, I am Christian. If an atheist came up to me and said… Well… Happy day… Then I would once again explain I am Christian. If someone came up and said happy holidays it would be the same case. And if someone is offended by that, let them be. My point being, that happy holidays isn’t meaningful. Go ahead and overanalyze my statement because seeing the other posts I know you will. Leaving it at that, Merry Christmas.
The privileged rarely if ever do see what the big deal is about their enjoying unjust privileges.
So it’s not really “special treatment” when it’s done for a majority? You don’t seem to recognize that it’s possible for a majority to be given speical treatment.
Dont’ be sorry — just don’t assume that everyone else does as you do.
Yes, it’s wrong that anyone started to object simply because they were bored.
Right, because not everyone celebrates Christmas — not even all Christians.
Right, because a “happy holiday” and even a “happy day” is so contrary to being Christians. I don’t doubt that for a second.
Indeed, it’s so meaningless to wish someone happiness during the holdiays. Well, it’s meaningless to Christians because they aren’t happy during the holidays.
Gee… Let’s look at this again.
1 once again NOT priveleged. That’s like because ninety percent of the country speak English, and say the other 10 speak other lanuages, we are forced to learn other languages. So therefore, as majority rule, we shouldn’t have to learn the other languages, and conform to something so vague as happy holidays.
2.I don’t assume everyone else does as I do, I stated that it could easily be corrected by a simple, polite comment. try this one, “I’m sorry I don’t celebrate Christmas, I am of the Jewish faith.”
now was that so hard?
3.”not everyone celebrates Christmas”. See number 2.
4.It is wrong to chAnge it whether they were bored or not. All you have to say is, oh, I don’t celebrate Christmas. Wow… 5 words. So hard to do right?
5. “not everyone celebrates Christmas” see number 4
6. Why should I conform? Sorry I don’t want to hear happy holidays. I would much rather hear merry Christmas.
7. Once again my point being that happy holidays is too vague to be meaningful.
8. Christians aren’t happy during the holidays?happens to be my favorite time of the year. If anyone atheists aren’t during the holidays. They have nothing to look forward to during the months. I get to be with my family and friends and have a great time. So you are in fact, wrong. And I’m guessing you’re little sarcastic statements Are coming, let me guess… Just because I’m Christian, and having a greAt time during the holidays, doesn’t mean they all are? Well.. I feel sorry for them because they are missing the point of christmas, it’s not about trees presents and what not, it’s about Christ.
9. Go ahead. I’ll be waiting for your comments.
When a particular religious belief system is given special privileges, how is that not privilege?
Then don’t wish them a Merry Christms.
So you admit that you would have to be corrected… which means that you admit that you could be mistaken… which means you were assuming they were celebrating what you do.
So, you admit that you shouldn’t have false asserted boredom as a reason.
Regardless, you don’t explain what’s wrong with “happy holidays.” It’s not new.
You shouldn’t assume that others celebrate what you do.
So… others should conform?
That’s your assertion, yes, and I believe you that you see no meaning in being wished happiness on your holidays.
You must not be if you don’t want to be wished happiness.
Prove it.
Prove it.
I’m waiting for you to offer arguments and evidence rather than baseless assertions.
I believe you cAn re-read number one. My basis was completely explained and logical.
I wish merry christmas because it’s how I was raised. I said if anyone has a problem all they have to do is say so. You are just trying to find reasons to make my posts look like they have no basis.
most of the population, not all, most. Celebrate So why shouldn’t I say merry Christmas? Once again say so If you don’t celebrate it.
I did explain what was wrong with happy holidays, you are just to blind to see the reasoning behind my prefering merry Christmas.
I never said others should conform.
I asked why should I? If you don’t wait to say anything fine by me.
You ask the same question and I give you the same answer. Why should others say merry Christmas? That’s what this whole thing is about. I answered, if someone said happy holidays I would say, I am Christian, I celebrate christmas. Considering about every 9/10 would say, merry Christmas back, I think it’s safe to say it. The others can say oh, I celebrate Hanukah. Then I would say, oh I’m sorry, happy hanukah. Seems like a polite exchange of words to me.
You know, the fact that you feel you need to call my arguments baseless to make you feel better let’s me know you aren’t happy.
Now I’m waiting on you to give me a different question. One I can give an answer to, that you won’t say the samething three or four times to. I’ve given you my answers and you walk around them asking the same question when my answers are indeed, logical. If you could see things from another perspective, maybe this would sink in a little better. I, look at both sides and have laid out what I will say in regards to “happy holidays.”. Maybe if you weren’t so busy trying to down play every Christians statements, then you could. And don’t take that as a personal attack, I mean no offense. I’m telling you what I feel.
And no comment on number one? Other than what you put the first time? Because it’s a strong basis and full argument. You know that it is something that makes sense and you can’t argue fact.
I just feel that this issue is being way overanalyzed. I can respect both sides of this controversy because they originate from strong values and beliefs of disbeliefs. However, I don’t believe “Merry Christmas” is at all narrow-minded. Is “Happy Hannukuh” and “Happy Kwanzaa” narrow-minded as well? What about “Happy Thanksgiving?”
I am Christian and I say “Merry Christmas” because I celebrate Christmas and “Happy Holidays” because it is also a season of many holidays. But these “vocal Christians” are the Christians who are angered by companies and people being required to say “Happy Holidays” in the fear of being sued by someone who took offense to a simple “Merry Christmas.”
Except that you don’t explain how and why one religion should be treated as better than any other. To be specific: you appear to be trying to argue that because something is common, then it therefore cannot be privileged — but you don’t explain how or why the two are mutually exclusive. This argument implies that only minority positions can be privileged, never majority positions, but it’s a fact of unjust social privilege that it’s something enjoyed by majorities at the expense of minorities — whites being privileged over blacks and men being privileged over women, for example.
This is a perfect example of how your position is baseless, being made without fact or logic. You think that because celebrating Christmas is popular, then it’s not a sign of privilege to single out Christmas for special treatment — but at no point do you actually offer a coherent, sound argument in defense of this. I’m not even sure you comprehend what a logical argument looks like since you seem to think that merely offering an analogy, without explaining the connections and reasoning, constitutes “a strong basis and full argument.”
Doing so assumes that others celebrate Christmas.
Thus you put the burden on them to correct you and invest no personal effort into being polite yourself.
I need invest no effort whatsoever. You’re doing all the work.
It’s not polite to simply assume that people are like you.
Yes, that it has no meaning to you. And I accept that the concept of happiness on the holidays is meaningless to you. However, you shouldn’t assume that others can’t see the value of happiness on the holidays.
Yes, you did: you said you don’t want to hear “happy holidays” from others, you want to hear “merry Christmas.” So, you want them to conform to the praise you like better. Why? Because it’s the phrase you were raised with. You want them to conform to how you were raised.
Because it’s how you were raised? That’s all I’m getting of your comments.
And nothing else? You don’t do anything on New Year’s? You don’t celebrate any of the other Christian holy days at this time of year?
It’s arrogant and presumptuous to suggest that noting the utter lack of foundation in your arguments is something that makes me “feel better.” You aren’t a mind reader and shouldn’t pretend to be one.
Coming from a person who doesn’t want anyone to say anything to them besides “merry Christmas,” this is laughable. I don’t think you’d recognize “another perspective” if you tripped over it.
Yes, I know, and that’s the problem. Your position is based entirely on what you feel and your emotions, not on logic or evidence.
Why? Please provide you reasoning.
Not if you know for a fact that a person celebrates those holidays in particular.
Customers have a right to be upset when some company starts acting like Christianity, Christian beliefs, Christian holidays, and as a consequence Christians themselves deserve special recognition and treatment over all other religions and believers. That’s no less bigoted than treating white customers as more worthy of special recognition.
Saying “Merry Christmas” is not narrow-minded because majority of the United States (almost 80%) practice Christianity.
If you say that Happy Thanksgiving, Happy Hannukah, etc. is not narrow-minded if you know they celebrate it, then wouldn’t saying “Happy Holidays” be narrow-minded as well, because of the atheists and agnostics?
1. About that many profess Christianity; far fewer actually “practice” it.
2. Even so, why is it not “narrow-minded” to favor the majority faith? You treat the two as if they are obviously connected, but I don’t see it. Please provide your reasoning. If we accept this position at face value, I don’t see why we shouldn’t conclude that also it isn’t narrow-minded to favor the majority race simply because a majority of Ameircans are white. So, to single out whiteness for special consideration isn’t narrow-minded when most people are white, right?
No, I don’t believe that and I could call anyone who does think that a racist. So, what’s the difference between that and what you’re saying? Hint: just because something is followed, held, or had by a majority doesn’t make it automatically good or just for it to be favored, privileged, etc.
3. Not even all Christians observe Christmas.
Not unless the only people who celebrate a “happy” day that is a “holiday” are atheists and agnostics. So, your question only makes sense if you sincerely doubt that any theists celebrate holidays this time of year, or at least celebrate holidays that are happy.
Daman is a theist who objects to being wished happiness on holidays, but he’s the only one I’ve ever encountered — what about you? Do you find the concept of being wished happiness on holidays to be foreign and inappropriate?
However, if holidays are celebrated and/or observed by people generally, then wishing people will on their holidays, whatever they are, can’t fit any definition of “narrow-minded” that I’ve seen. If you disagree, please cite a definition and explain how it applies here.
You’re right, it doesn’t mean it is right to be favored but because it is the majority, it is naturally favored.
It is true that many claim to be Christian but fail to practice it, but there are still a majority of people who practice Christianity than others who practice other religions.
One could say that you writing this article in English is narrow-minded as well. You wrote it in English because that’s how you know how to and that’s what majority of the United States knows. But what about the minority who speak Spanish, Chinese, Japanese, etc.?
Like I said earlier, I, personally, say “Merry Christmas” and “Happy Holidays” and understand the reasoning for both.
Daman is just someone who has strong roots and faith in what he believes.
Oh good grief.
Everyone should have an emotionally satifying ChristmaHannaquanzza
Something that is “naturally” favored may not be right to favor, and if it’s not right to favor it then it is an unjust privilege. At one time it was “natural” for whites to favor whites, but this created unjust racial privileges which had to be ended by force of law.
Since I’m not directly addressing them, I’m not presuming that they speak English and thus am not inappropriately privileging English.
Daman is also a bigot who wants other to favor his religious beliefs.
One aspect of this “Happy Holidays” vs. “Merry Christmas” issue that I don’t understand is why Christians feel a deep-seated need to share their religion with random strangers (whether it be bank tellers, cashiers, whatever). Some Christian friends think by saying “happy holidays” to people they don’t know that their holiday is being stolen from them, that they are being deprived of their right to religious freedom, that their speech is being denied. I think this is so insensitive!
My view is, please, celebrate your faith and your “Merry Christmas” among family and friends that share that faith. Do not assume that random strangers share that belief. Why do Christians need to see their faith reflected all around them and acknowledged by people they don’t know? This issue to me is similar to the desire to have the 10 commandments displayed at court houses or random crosses along stretches of public highways. Why do you need to have your belief expressed this way? Why do you want strangers to affirm your beliefs?
By the way, I was raised Roman Catholic and attended Catholic school K-12. I am now agnostic. I do celebrate Christmas because I feel like it is a family tradition. I say “Merry Christmas” to people I know celebrate Christmas; “Happy Holidays” when I don’t know or I’m sending general wishes for good will. I’m assuming that the “holiday season” also takes in New Year’s Eve & Day too – unreligious holidays.
To you Christians: no one is saying “Don’t say Merry Christmas to your friends and family”. Please keep doing it; practice whatever form of theism you prefer with those you know. But be respectful of people who celebrate differently.
I have few things to say to you.
This will be my last post
if you are to feeble minded to understand the meaning of mine, MRs, and the others comments then so be it.
Merry Christmas is not a narrow greeting when more people in the country celebrate it than any other.
Start looking At both sides and maybe you’ll understand the reasonings.
How is atheism and others not being priveleged? They took prayer, bibles and many other Christian associated things out of public locations, so priveleged? More like handicapped. I have the freedom of speech, and religion.
Therefore it is not priveleged, it is based on freedom and majority. You are wrong.
Anaylze that and post. I don’t care for talking to someone so narrow-minded.
Austin is a bigot who is upset because he had two words (merry Christmas) said to him. So he decided to go Christian bashing.
Just because you have a blog and feel the need to express the fact you’re upset because someone wished you a merry christmas, doenst mean you need to take our comments, and argue based on something that you ant see the other side to.
I didn’t personally attack you. I was hoping I was arguing with someone intellectual but seeing as how you can’t do anything but call me out, then I am done arguing.
I know I am right. I know you are wrong. That’s all I need to know.
You keep saying that, but you don’t give any justification for why.
And you have? Thus far you’ve displayed zero understanding of others.
Because they aren’t being given anything others don’t have.
Your knowledge of these issues is nearly non-existent. Most of the lawsuits which removed government-sponsored prayers, Bibles, and similar materials were brought by Christians. What’s more, the mere absence of one religion’s materials is not in any way a privileging of atheism; on the other hand, when members of one religion complain that their materials are no longer being given as special place by the state, that’s a sure sign of privilege.
I’ll wager that you don’t even comprehend what “privilege” means. If you did, you’d have explained what you understand by it then argue how and why it doesn’t apply to Christians here. But, you didn’t.
And no one has said otherwise.
By that “reasoning,” it’s just “freedom of the majority” when whites give themselves special benefits and recognition unavailable to other races, right? I’ve raised this analogy before and you failed to respond, a sure sign that you can’t.
Yet, you prove yourself completely unable to rebut anything I write. You don’t even try; instead, you just repeat the same things you wrote before as if there had been no responses. That’s feeble.
Where “narrow-minded” must mean “disagrees with me in ways I can’t respond to.”
Who said I was upset? Don’t give up your day job because your career as a mind-reader will go nowhere.
FYI, even if someone is upset at being wished a Merry Christmas, that wouldn’t be bigotry, After all, this is something that some Jews experience, which according to you makes them bigots and that’s just absurd. It is, if anything, bigotry against those Jews because it makes gross fallacies to reach negative conclusions about the inferiority of others. Whether a person is Jewish, atheist, Hindu, or Christian (i.e., Jehovah’s Witness), they aren’t a bigot for not appreciating being wished a “Merry Christmas.” It is, however, a good sign of privilege when Christians regard such wishes as so natural and appropriate that there must be something wrong with people who don’t agree.
Right, because telling Christians it’s wrong for them to expect to be treated as special is “bashing.”
No, because calling a person a bigot is never an attack.
First, you never started arguing. You never once constructed a logical argument of any sort — you just made assertions and then restated the assertions over and over while ignoring everything said in reasponse.
You don’t seem to comprehend the difference between “knowledge” and “opinion.” You have an opinion that you are right, but you failure to support that opinion actually demonstrates that it falls well short of any standards of knowledge.
I said it was my last post, but I must say you called me a bigot first. I have justified, and you keep repeating yourself. That’s why YOU get the same answer. If you can’t comprehend my justifications, then sorry. And yes I have looked at both sides. Sorry I’m not like you who mocks those when you do the same thing. So because there are those who don’t celebrate Christmas I should conform? Well if that’s what you believe sorry. I’m not going to. I would rather say it, and if they don’t, tell me what they do so I can wish them a happy whatever it is they celebrate.
I hav given my reasonings and if anything yours is based off opinion as well. Because you don’t celebrate Christmas you want me to say happy holidays?
Why don’t you think before YOU assert YOU OPINIONS?
This is actually two posts past your ‘last” post.
Repetition is not the same as justification. A justification would require evidence and logical arguments, neither of which you can provide.
Then I challenge you to explain what you think you comprehend of the other side.
Pointing out a person’s bigotry isn’t “mocking.” I suggest you look up the word.
No one suggested that you “conform” to anything. You’re free to be bigoted and impolite.
Because you’re bigoted.
No. However, I recommend “happy holidays” because they are applicable to a far wider range of people without implications of disrespect. They don’t imply that one holiday is better than others, than one religion is preferred over others, etc.
This is, in the end, why I think you won’t use that wish — it doesn’t express your desire to place your own religion and holidays over others even as you are addressing them and pretending to be polite to them.
I have thought — that’s why, unlike you, I’ve been able to offer actual arguments in defense of what I’ve said. I’ve also, unlike you, responded to what others have said.
It’s sad. You athiests. You are going to burn in hell because you can’t accept the fact that God created us. We didn’t evolve from monkeys. That is stupid. Anyway, it is Merry Christmas, not Happy Holidays. Listen, Christmas is associated with wrapped gifts, model trains, trees with lights, and santa pharapenalia.
If a commercial, perhaps, involves these things, it is ‘Merry Christmas’, if it shows a tree, 8 candles, a New Year’s Baby, it is ‘Happy Holidays’. If ‘Happy Holidays’ is supposed to refer to Christmas, it should be ‘Merry Christmas’.
You know Austin, your OPINION doesn’t matter to me. Call me out all you want. All you’ve done is re-word your statements. You are narrow-minded and think you are intellectually superior to everyone else here. Well you aren’t. I have no time for someone so arrogant as yourself. This WILL be my final post.
All you’ve done is state your opinion that we should say happy holidays… Well guess what? You are asserting your opinion.
Keep talking about me to others. Calling me whatever you want. I don’t care. At the end of the day, I’ll be a better person for it.
Go ahead and post. I won’t read it… Go post YOUR OPINIONS on your little blog. Since it seems to make you feel so much better about yourself. You are no more better than I. I, on the other hand, recognize that. That’s not a contradictory statement, I can say what I want to people.
And if I am a bigot for wishing people a Merry Christmas when most celebrate it here, so be it. If I went to another country, where Christmas wasn’t the dominant holiday, then yes, I would probably say happy holidays. But considering my current location, I can say it, without worrying about problems.
Austin you are the true bigot here. You are too blinded by your own sense of self-righteousness to see that the country is predominantly Christian and celebrate as such.
Don’t tell me to find the definitions for words, you’re patronizing me.
You fail to see that people like me ARE happy during the holidays, but not because someone wished it upon me, but Because the birth of our savior Took place.
If it makes you feel better about your surely dreary life, Go ahead. Make your comments that have no effect. Your blog is so unimportant, and knowing that I’ve wasted as much time as I have on here is ridiculous.
you want peoples opinions obviously so you can attempt to play them down to make you feel better about yourself. Did you think that someone might be offended by happy holidays as to merry Christmas? Once again I am happy during the holidays. Proven above.
“Guide to Austin Clines opinion since 1998.”
You’re views and opinions are obviously backed up by your own experiences and the education you received. I admit I’m only in my second year of college and I suppose I have a lot to learn about many things. I enjoyed arguing about this and you have made some good points, but my views and opinions are also rooted from personal experiences but most of all, my faith, which can never be swayed or broken.
I will continue to believe what I believe and I hope that you, too, will continue to believe–or not believe–everything that you do until the very end.
That morally abhorrent enough to refuse to follow such a god even if we did think it existed.
I believe you that you didn’t evolve, but you shouldn’t presume to speak for others.
Says who?
Did you notice that none of that is Christian?
Actually, “happy holidays” refers to all the holidays a person does or might celebrate.
Neither do facts and logic, given the absence of either in any of your writings.
I’ve given explanations, arguments, and analyses of your own comments. Insofar as there is repetition in any of this, it’s because you’ve offered nothing new past your first comment.
And I’ve provided reasons why that can be preferable. Of course, since those reasons are founded on evidence and logic, they don’t matter to you.
Ah, the Christian persecution complex. It’s so well developed in you.
Except for the minor detail that I’m not using fallacies, falsehoods, and generalizations to reach negative conclusions about the inferiority of others — the essence of bigotry. I guess when facts and logic are irrelevant, then one will feel free to apply labels to others without regard for little matters like definitions.
Well, then, maybe you should learn the definitions of words before using them.
Yes, you act it.
And it’s so demonstrative of happiness to object that being wished “happy holidays” is “meaningless” to you — which only makes sense if either “happy” or “holidays” just doesn’t apply to you. I’m pretty sure you have at least one holiday of some sort this time of year, so that leaves being wished “happiness” which you find objectionable.
So, you are closed-minded and have decided, in advance of any possible evidence, arguments, or new experiences, that you don’t ever want to have any changes or even minor adjustments in what you believe.
That’s contrary not only to every possible intellectual value, but also to a number of basic moral values as well. Such a position expresses disregard and disdain for facts which means that one just doesn’t care about truth so much as about preserving one’s ideology.
I’ve changed my mind about a number of things over the years and expect I will change my mind again a number of times in my life. So, no, I don’t intend to be exactly the same “until the very end” and actually find it objectionable that you would want me to be so closed-minded.
Damon:
Your grammar and spelling are terrible. Your logic isn’t too hot either. Consider reading more books.
Perhaps you can ask your friends and family to buy you some this holiday season.
Happy Holidays everyone.
Merry Christmas
Happy Holidays
Why is this being argued on here? Last I check, America guaranteed its citizens with the right to free speech. If “Merry Christmas” offends you, then deal with it. If “Happy Holidays” offends you, then deal with it. Why would you argue on this website about which one is correct or which one should be said?
Strictly speaking, freedom of speech gives one the right to say just about anything to anyone at any time, so long as it stops short of threats or slander. However, the mere fact that one has a right and desire to say something doesn’t mean that what they say is appropriate, reasonable, fair, polite, civil, etc. Therefore, saying “I have a right to say it” does not entail that it’s meaningless or pointless to debate whether something is appropriate, reasonable, fair, polite, civil, etc.
The only thing that would make it truly pointless is if the person making the statements in question just don’t care whether their statements are appropriate, polite, etc. — if they are making those statements solely to make themselves feel better, more important, etc.
Given how often these days some Christians use “Merry Christmas” as an insult or attack rather than a sincere effort to wish others well, I’d say that the above scenario is occurring quite a lot.
Wait, so what you are saying is that when someone says “Merry Christmas” to you, you feel offended?
I don’t believe anyone has said that, and I certainly didn’t say it in my response to you. For you to arrive at that interpretation forces me to question whether you actually read what I wrote.
As an interesting point of contrast, Damad did say that if greeted with “Happy Holidays,” he would be bothered enough to correct them by saying “I’m Christian” — as if there is some contradiction between being Christian and being wished happiness on the holidays.
It’s not quite taking offense, but it’s a lot closer to taking offense than anything any atheist has written here… yet you didn’t react to that. I find that curious.
It’s people like you who, all your lives, persuade people that there is no God and why they shouldn’t believe in God. But in those last moments before you are about to die and soon burn in hell, you look to God for hope and salvation.
Can you offer any good reasons to bother believing?
In fact, many atheists have faced death without doing this. It’s arrogant, presumptuous, and bigoted to assert otherwise. In short, it’s an excellent demonstration of the true nature of your religion.
I think that you are taking things a bit to far here. I mean, I am a christian, but I seek no special treatment. I simply want EQUAL treatment. I mean, every single religion is accepted in public schools except for christianity. I have seen this first hand. I have no problem if you want the other holidays celebrated equally, but that doesn’t mean that you should clump them all into one basket. Every holiday is different. To christians, christmas celebrates christs birth, but to the rest, if they want to celebrate christmas simply for the presents and the tree, I see no problem with that. I agree that every holiday should be respected equally, but that is to be taken up with the businesses. They hold christmas high because they see it as a holiday where people spend the most money. That is what it all comes down to.
I challenge you to specify what, exactly, is being taken too far and why.
Do cite specific examples of where Christians are treated unequally.
Every religion? Buddhsim, Hinduism, Taoism, etc? Examples and citations, please.
No one has said that anyone “should clump them all into one basket,” but are you insisting that peoples should not?
That has traditionally been the case, but the “Christmas” they hold high is simply a day for buying gifts and has nothing to do with a religious Christmas. What’s more, as other year-ending holidays gain traction, businesses highlight the season in general.
I agree. No more of this “Happy Holidays” crap.
Merry Cthulumas, everyone. Problem solved.
December 7, Pearl Harbor Day
December 11, Hanukkah Begins at Sunset
December 17, Saturnalia begins
December 18, Islamic New Year
December 21, Winter Solstice
December 23, The Emperor’s Birthday
December 25, Christmas
December 26, Boxing Day
December 26, Kwanzaa begins
That’s only a partial list of the holidays that occur this month. That’s why “Happy Holidays” is correct for all occasions. Specific holiday greetings are appropriate only on the date(s) of the holiday named.
For those who keep saying we did not evolve from monkeys: No one has EVER said humans evolved from monkeys. Humans and apes have a common ancestor, that is not the same thing as evolving from monkeys.
alan (20). Were you, or are you, being home schooled?
“It’s people like you who, all your lives, persuade people that there is no God and why they shouldn’t believe in God. But in those last moments before you are about to die and soon burn in hell, you look to God for hope and salvation.”
Having been faced with a life or death situation recently, I can honestly say that your statement in my case is nonsense.
At no point did I feel any inclination to pray, and as it turned out, I was ok.
From what I’ve seen, people pray for their lives….hardly the act of people who believe they’re going somewhere better. If you truly believe,then you should look forward to dying.
By the way, god may well exist, but you’re crushingly arrogant to think that it’s your god and your interpretation of him. If it turns out that the real god is Baal or Zeus, we’ll all be on the toaster together.
And if he does exist, I want no part of him.
Mobilediesel said: “For those who keep saying we did not evolve from monkeys: No one has EVER said humans evolved from monkeys. Humans and apes have a common ancestor, that is not the same thing as evolving from monkeys.”
Can’t let this go.
Many people have said humans evolved from monkeys.
Humans are apes so saying they have a common ancestor adds nothing.
What perhaps you mean to say is modern apes, including humans and modern monkeys have a common ancestor.
Just a random thought.
It’s been long known that the winter holidays originated in the distant past, long before Christianity came to be, when people celebrated other gods and believed in other myths that weren’t much different from the stories of the New Testament.
Up until the last millennium religions and belief systems occurred and disappeared like the colored shapes in a kaleidoscope.
One may think that the same will happen to Christmas, say, 800 years from now; that people will have a totally different reason to single out a day around the winter solstice. And, who knows, their religious convictions may be of a totally different order.
I don’t think this is going to happen. I’m afraid we’re stuck with Christianity for a very long time (”unto the ages of ages”). And the reason is that, with the advancement of science and philosophy it is really hard for a new religion to appear and enjoy global recognition (I’m not considering Scientology a religion in the strict sense of the word; to me it is more of a cult, where a high entry fee makes it available only to a select number of followers).
Another reason for the endurance of Christianity is that Western civilization is so deeply rooted in it, that almost everything we deal with on a daily basis has some connection with the Bible. Our very moral principles, however imperfect and broken they may be, come from that collection of ancient texts.
i really didn’t want anything to do with this because i was having so much “fun” reading this, and because i wrote and published and essay on this very subject for Church and State today, but…
this guy daman is either one of the most dense, arrogant self inflated blow hards on earth, or one of my ex-wives.
When I die, I will be glad that I will finally be done with the Baptists and the Catholics.
Since the trappings of Christmas (decorated evergreens, mistletoe, gift-giving, over-eating, Santa, etc) have nothing to do with the myth of the illegitimate birth of a Hebrew child 2000 years ago, I have no problem with “Merry Christmas”. But I’ll say “Happy Holidays” just to tick-off self-righteous so-called Christians.
If the fundies want to put “Christ back in Christmas”, then they’ll chuck the X-mas tree, not give their kids anything from a certain “jolly old elf”, and quietly spend the season praying before a Nativity scene.
HAPPY YULETIDE! (that’s from the pagan in me)
Interestingly enough, my long battle with a severe case of Crohn’s Disease, which included numerous hospitalizations, has simply reinforced the reality that there is no rational, historical or factual basis for a belief in any deity described by human writings to this date. Does that mean there is nothing out there, no, but there is no evidence that any higher power is involved with humanity.
I have had three different occasions where I came close to dying & not once did I stop & make an appeal to a higher power since that would be the same to me as calling upon Santa, The Tooth Fairy or The Easter Bunny to “save” me. I had confidence in the medical staff to treat me & I was cognizant that I could die anytime given the seriousness of my illness. It is this knowledge of just how fragile life actually is that makes me appreciate how special the finite amount of time we have as conscious, sentient beings in the universe.
For me, religion is the “drug” of choice that so many humans use to avoid the reality of their existence. Atheists simply accept reality & make the most of the life we have in the here & now. There is no “economy of salvation” where we suffer the sins of the flesh now so we can have eternal bliss with “insert name of deity here” for all eternity. We only get this one shot to make our mark on our world, so we work to make society, the environment, government, etc. better to leave a world that has evolved in a positive manner for our progeny.
Since religion is a drug, don’t act so surprised when rational people throw cold water in the face of the addicts. Happy Holidays covers the season perfectly while Merry Christmas refers specifically to the use & abuse of the drug. Even “holidays” is still supporting the concept of “holy days” but it has become secularized enough that people can say it without the religious/drug overtones.
The fundelmentalists seem to be missing the point.
Christmas is one day, Dec 25, and should be kept at that. There is no such thing as a Christmas Season. So I will say Merry Christmas on Dec 25, and Happy Holidays on any other of the remaining 364 days so I can be all inclusive.
At least the Christians only have to listen to “Happy Holidays” for a few weeks every year.
How about the way some of them have replaced the merely insipid “have a nice day” with the thoroughly annoying “have a blessed day”? I have to listen to that crap all year long.
Happily I am not an American, sometimes this leaves me bemused especially with terminology germane to American English, which in itself could be considered a little oxymoronic. Sorry I’m being facetious.
But in my ignorance could someone please enlighten me.What is Kwanzaa (26th December) or Boxing day in English English.?
Incidentally people here do say “Happy Christmas.” I take it as it is meant, that is, with not much more sincerity as the check out Chick’s. “Have a Good day.” when leaving the store. My usual response is “Hope next year treats us better.” Nobody seems to be offended and smiles all around. I never send cards, any sort of cards.
For those I care about I write. I don’t need some profiteering company to express my feelings. Some do send me cards, but knowing my feelings, I notice most usually make sure the offensive religious terminology is absent.
In closing I’ll give you a typical Ozzie farewell. ” ‘Ave a good one,” (or two.)
‘Merry Christmas’ has become so generic that it’s hardly insulting or offensive. I’m not a christian but it doesn’t bother me in the slightest. My friends who are non-christian faiths have all voiced how silly the debate is (admittedly it’s a small sample size of about seven or eight). I still think that if you are bothered by someone saying Merry Christmas OR Happy Holidays, you need a thicker skin. If I went to another country to visit or live, I wouldn’t care if any greeting they gave me had a religious connotation or not, I’d just be happy they were being polite to me. I wouldn’t assume there was a dark, parenthetical ‘unless you don’t celebrate my religion, then I take it back’ message attached. I really believe they would just be being nice.
What a totally pointless article. It’s Christmas, not Holiday. If you don’t like it, don’t celebrate it! And by the way, 67% is not a “strong minority”, it’s the majority.
Christmas isn’t a holiday? News to me…
My country, as yours, is becoming rather mixed. I envisage holidays and feast days for ALL the religions. The more the merrier.
I have been told that in India there is a feast(holiday) on every day of the year somewhere. So will we see all of them given equal time?
Bring it on. One long holiday and one great booze up all year long.Reckon a lot of blokes will second that.
*sigh*
The Bill of Rights was intended to protect the rights of the minorities, even if that minority is one.
Naden…you’re a dumb-ass
Happy f*ing Xmas
Tom Edgar (78). This bloke seconds that!
Dane M (46). Your god is the most cruel, tyrannical demon ever invented by the demented mind of man; I would not worship it if I were standing on the brink of Hell, and were told that I would be permitted to escape if I worshiped it. My self respect is far too important to me.
Jesus is not banned from the schools
Free speech. You can say Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays.
tell me if this sounds right. little girl: “mommy, mommy lets go open the holiday presents under the holiday tree.”"i love the holidays mommy”
santa:”ho ho ho happy holidays”
if u think it sould be happy holidays because not everyone is christian well then why r u celebrating it if ur not christian
btw we dont call then holiday eggs
Merry christmas all the way
btw we dont call then holiday eggs — Jesus”anonamys on December 19, 2009 at 12:59 pm
Remind me — which book of the Bible tells us to hide Easter eggs?
Tom Edgar (78). This bloke thirds that, and lifts a glass to your health!
Why do you think that only Christian celebrate a holiday that no longer has any particular connection to Christianity anymore?
I used Happy Holidays on Facebook.Several people slammed me for it,shooting back that its Merry Christmas.When I asked why they wouldn’t wish good tidings on every one no one answered.Some people will never get it.
To everyone-Happy Holidays.
happy f*ing xmas and solstice and may your xmas tree fall over and smash the dopey little angel on top as it tumbles onto your dumb ass nativity scene set up on your coffee table with all the xmas cards that say merry f*ing xmas.
then, may a gang of drunk teenagers steal the fake baby in that ridiculous “scene” set up on the church lawn and put the animals in a “compromising” arrangement for all to see as they line up for their once a year visit to pay their fake respects and fork over some doe so they feel a little better about being douche bags the rest of the year, while all the guys silently laugh they’re asses off at the mule humping the goat on the front lawn.
then, everyone goes home, after the horrified priests rearrange the mule and goat, then hump the alter boy, and say their once a year prayers over turkey, get sh*t faced and watch football all day and slap their wives and kids around.
…………..and to all, good f*king night.
oh yeah, peace on earth.
Zayla. I think there much less obnoxious ways of expressing contempt for the whole childish ritualistic season.
Or for that matter, the reasons for the season or any other religious celebration.
Let them enjoy their juvenile fantasies. I recently attended an ex Naval Xmas dinner, I pointblank refused to wear a silly paper hat, I wasn’t the only one. I also took no part in making the “Loyal” (Royal) toast. once again I wasn’t a solo item. I don’t make a song and a dance of it. I’ll stand but not participate. It isn’t for me to say “Your stupid,” but I don’t have to be as are they.
But then my countrymen are a lot more tolerant than yours.
For all that. I wish next year brings you joy, and for all of us, sans espoir, Peace.
.
Tom Edgar, You just sound like a buzzkill….. A boring ass nigga
Matt I would like to say you sound intellectual and erudite.
But I’m know for my veracity.
Look on the bright side. You can only improve.
Upon reflection Matt. Why? Jai ne comprenez pas.
Tom Edgar-Intelligence and class personified.
Matt-Ignorance personified.
Again,Happy Holidays.
Honestly everyone. This is just a classic example of religion causing more hate and controversy – both of which are completely unnecessary for this situation. I think there is an easy answer for this problem:
Government organizations/employees – Happy Holidays (referring to all celebrations of christmas, hanukkah, winter, kwanza, etc) – or say nothing at all
Private companies – say whatever the hell you want; it’s absurd to think the government should mandate what a private organization says; if you work for said organization, and you do not agree with their choice of winter wish, then QUIT.
Individuals – again, say whatever winter wish you would like; a two-word phrase won’t cause any physical damage, and if you are emotionally harmed than you need to grow thicker skin.
Get over it loser. Merry Christmas:)
So what is it I have get over? seeing that you seem to be incapable of even sensibly answering a simple “Why”?? to your vituperative and nonsensical utterances of no consequence. As we say down under.
May all your chooks turn into Emus, and kick your dunny down.
En Français: Joyeaux Noël En Español: Feliz Navidad Em Português: Feliz Natal I bokmål: God Jul And finally in English: MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!
Some people question why God lets bad things happen. The answer is he doesn’t “let” them happen. If you had ANY knowledge of the Bible, God gave us a little thing called FREE WILL, which is why we should love and worship him! Merry Christmas to all!!!
“Happy Holidays” includes Christmas. It encompasses ALL of the many holidays celebrated during the month of December. It’s pure selfishness to see this as an insult to your religion rather than the well-intentioned offering that it is. What precisely do so many people find offensive about wishing *everyone* a happy holiday instead of only one specific group?
Seriously, if you find “Happy Holidays” offensive because it doesn’t mention YOUR holiday specifically (even though it does INCLUDE it!), grow up and get over it.
You’ve answered your own question: it’s precisely the fact that everyone is being wished well and Christians aren’t being singled out for special treatment that is offensive. Yes, that’s exactly as selfish, self-centered, and arrogant as it sounds.
I prefer the broader greeting of Merry CHRISTmas as to the narrow greeting of happy holidays.
So, you only want to give well-wishes to people who follow your religion, not to people who follow any other religion or to people celebrating any other holidays.
That’s not merely narrow; that’s tribalistic and practically xenophobic. It’s not far off from only wanting to give well-wishes to people of the same race — it’s saying “you’re different from me, so I don’t want to express the same positive feelings or treat you like a equal human being.”
Seems kinda odd to say this here but if you read the bible and pay attention Jesus was born in Spring probly in late April or May. Not in the middle of winter.
Christmas got it origins from roman holiday held on the winter solstice. Mostly consisting of exploits that would a porn star blush, thus unaceptable to the powers that be at the time. (and probly today too)
I am so tired of having to please everybody else from different countries..like they do *&*^ for us. Christmas is an American Holiday so Merry CHRISTmas everybody!
you know, if you go to Jerusalem, I’m sure they have “Happy Hanukkah displayed everywhere not “Merry Christmas” so why do the united states need to worry about posting Merrry Christmas because we might offend someone. Our country was founded from Christian roots so Christmas is part of our culture. If someone said “Happy Hanukkah” to me I wouldn’t get all mad and offended, I would smile and say “thank you, merry CHRISTmas”
So, basic civil behavior and decency has become a burden for you?
Oh? I didn’t know that Christmas wasn’t celebrated outside America.
If you feel the need to use “Merry Christmas” as invective, an insult, or an attack, then that says something very profound about your character.
Because we’re better than that? Well, some of us are. Only you can decide if you are.
Like what, exactly?
So is slavery.
So, you’d use the opportunity to push “Christ” on others in as obnoxious a manner as possible, even though they were treating you exactly as you treat them. How wonderfully nice of you.
I find myself wondering, though, if you bother to celebrate Mass on Christmas. If not, you’re hardly in a position to object to what people do with the day.
I believe it was once asked of Aristotle if he believed in God.
He replied, “If there is not a God and I don’t pray, it is not a problem. If there is a God and I don’t pray, I am in trouble, therefore I pray.
Austin, you’re the one that’s closed minded and yes Christmas (as we know it as) is an AMERICAN Holiday. Like I said, i doubt you would see “Happy Holidays” posted in other countries that that majority celebrated another Holiday about this time of the year. the politcal, left wing bull S**T really needs to end. Up until all his “Political correctness” nobody thought twice about wishing somebody a Merry CHRISTmas.
Oh, and as far as what you consider “CIVIL” behavior…lol. How many other countries treat us as “Civil” We’re forgetting who we are as Americans and we are losing our country and our beliefs because we are afraid of offending somebody and to me, that is sad. We can’t forget who we are, that’s what makes us American.. Not anything else. If you celebrate something else or believe in something else, that’s your own right and to each their own, but as for Companies in America selling “Holiday Tree’s” or “Holiday Presents” That is most foolish and stupid. The only reason they do is to prevent some delicate soul from being offended by Christmas. That’s a shame.
And posting Merry Christmas, isn’t an attack on anybody. I celebrate CHRISTmas not X-mas not Merry Holiday.
Thank you.
I find myself wondering if you are the one with the spine to stand up for what you believe in. Must be really exhausting trying to please everybody.
You’re welcome to try to show how, if you can.
So, Christmas isn’t celebrated in Germany or France?
So what? Are you recommending that America do things exactly as other countries do things?
Actually, the phrase “Happy Holidays” has existed for quite a while. It’s not new.
So you decide how to treat fellow human beings in America based on how other nations treat America? I can’t even figure out what the connection might be, but assuming there is one it hardly seems just or moral.
So, you “lose” who you are by being polite? Doesn’t that mean that who you really are is mean?
So “American” is all you are, nothing more?
When you capitalize “Christ,” you’re trying to create a personal insult out of it.
I don’t try to please everyone. Obviously I haven’t tried to please you, have I? Fortunately, one doesn’t need to “please” a person in order to practice basic politeness like our parents taught us.
Austin
It’s Christmas. That’s the name of the holiday and that’s the name it’s always been. Because I believe old fashioned about that doesn’t make me rude or not polite.
“Holiday” is coined from the term of “Holy Day”. You don’t seem to have a problem using that?
I believe people can celebrate or believe however they want to believe, I have no problems with Jewish beliefs, agnostic, atheists ect. I’m not the most religious person either…But when I go to Target to buy a Christmas Tree and I see “Holiday Tree” posted instead, it sickens me. That’s what are country is coming to?
Oh, and since you’ve brought it up, I’m not saying that people in different countries don’t celebrate Christmas. People in other countries celebrate Hanukkah too, but it’s mostly celebrated in Israel and you don’t see “Happy Holidays” posted everywhere there. Because the majority celebrate Hanukkah. By saying hapy hanukkah they aren’t trying to push beliefs on anybody..that’s who they are and what they celebrate. So why can’t you be vocal about what you celebrate without people “taking offense because someone else might take offense to what you are saying and we just can’t have that.”
People fine all sorts of things offensive and it’s never going to be a perfect world. No matter how much you try and change it, it isn’t going to happen. So Merry Christmas to you
oh and when I say Merry Christmas..it isn’t an attack on anybody, Just making a point. It’s a defense if anything. If anybody wants to tell me Happy Hanukkah or Happy solstice, that is fine..but I would still reply Merry Christmas because that’s what I celebrate..doesn’t make it an attack.
No, because the word is no longer limited to things being “holy.” The term “holiday” is used with secular days all the time.
I assume you don’t have a problem using “Saturday” despite it originating as Saturn’s Day. I assume you don’t have a problem with Thursday despite it originating as Thor’s Day.
So, it irks you when people don’t celebrate exactly as you?
It’s coming to the point where non-Christians are being treated as equals alongside Christians and Christians aren’t being privileged. Why does that bother you?
Yes, you are, when you claim that Christmas is an “American” holiday.
Because when you wish someone well on some holiday, you aren’t simply being vocal about what you celebrate. Wishing someone well is supposed to be about them, not about you. When you make it about you, you’re being selifsh.
There you go, making it about you again. You’re being selfish, self-centered, and self-righteous in an effort to assert your own personal religious traditions ever everyone and everything else.
What’s worst, though, is that your self-righteousness is blinding you to all this. You refuse to accept that anyone could reasonably perceive anything you’re doing in a negative manner.
It’s an attack when you say CHRISTmas.
So in cases where you can reasonably conclude that they celebrate something other than Christmas, you’ll still wish them a Merry Christmas instead of the holiday they probably celebrate… because you celebrate it. This means you’re putting yourself and your interests ahead of theirs. It’s a selfish act, nothing more.
So long as you keep putting yourself, your needs, and your sense of indignation ahead of everyone else, there cannot be anything remotely like good intentions being wishing others “Merry Christmas.” It ceases to be a hope that others enjoy a good day and becomes nothing more than an attempt to assert dominance.
It’s akin to a gorilla beating its chest or a cat puffing out its hair. I’m neither impressed nor intimidated.
It doesn’t irk or bother me if people don’t celebrate or believe as I do, as I’ve said before. Apparently, by your passion it does “irk” you a bit or you wouldn’t have created this entire blog.
They say “Holiday” tree not because of how they believe personally, but because they are afraid of offending people that take offense to Christmas and that bothers me, because it is in fact a Christmas tree, not a Holiday Tree.
You don’t call a Menorah a Holiday candle holder….. It’s a Menorah. and im sure if you addressed it as such, there would be a lot of angry Jewish celebrators. Because it’s something they hold sacred.
About me being, selfish, self centered or the other things you’ve called me. I don’t think I am at all..in fact your blog proves that I’m not and most people feel the way I feel. So who is really being the selfish one in this whole debate? You blog to get different opinions, don’t you? Is everyones opinion them being selfish? Apparently everybody doesn’t believe as you and that sure seems to piss you off.
People should be able to say whatever they want to say around this time of year, it’s about family and friends, coming together and celebrating how they want to celebrate. As far as Merry Christmas being offensive – people can be offended and they are going to be, that’s a fact of life. You are going to be offended at least every once in awhile by something. I just really disrespect how somebody can take something like a Christmas tree that used to be a sacred symbol of Christmas and change the name of a holiday tree, out of fear that if they sell it under those pretenses then people aren’t going to buy it..
Obviously it does, otherwise you wouldn’t get upset at people doing things differently from you.
How do you know? How many have you asked?
Originally, it was a pagan solstice tree. So why doesn’t it bother you that it’s still called that? It seems that you only approve of a religion’s traditions being changed and appropriated when it’s your religion doing the changing and appropriating.
Of course you don’t. It’s a simple fact, though, that you are making statements like the “Merry Christmas” greeting all about you and not at all about others. That’s the very definition of selfishness. Making something all about you, and disregarding the feelings of others, is perhaps one of the most selfish and self-centered things a person can do. If that’s not selfish, then nothing is.
If you don’t want to be a selfish person, you need to stop behaving in such a selfish manner. You define yourself by your actions and need to strive to act differently in order to be a different and better person. However, I don’t think you’ll do this so long as you continue to see yourself, your ego, and your religion as more important than anyone else around you.
So much for Christianity teaching adherents the value of principles like humility, generosity, and “doing unto others.” The selfishness of the attitude you’re exemplifying means that it’s no longer about “Christ” and therefore certainly not “Christ-Mass.” It’s just “Me, Me, Me-Mas.”
Pointing out when people behave in a selfish, mean-spirited way isn’t itself selfish.
Unless they are saying “Happy Holidays,” appaently.
And they will if you continue to say it in the selfish, aggressive manner that you’ve adopted. People will naturally be offended when your words imply caring about others but the manner in which they are used is more like a cultural cudgel.
Yeah, i’m aggressive because I stand up what for I believe in. Don’t pretend like you’re better than everybody else…ever think you’re the one being selfish? Don’t judge me because i have values. Like I said before, if you go around trying to please everybody all the time, you’re going to end up living a very disappointing and sad life..I almost feel sorry for you.
There is a difference between standing up for what you believe in and using your beliefs as a cudgel against others. There is a difference between being true to your beliefs and mistreating those who don’t share your beliefs.
I don’t have to pretend that I don’t do the things that you’re doing.
If you think it’s “selfish” to argue in favor of treating people generously and kindly, you’re more than welcome to make your case. I’ve made mine and thus far you’ve been unable to offer any sort of substantive response.
I don’t. I judge your behavior because it’s atrocious.
Fortunately I don’t try to please everyone. I also don’t go out of my way to use my beliefs as a cudgel against others. This is because not pleasing everyone doesn’t require that one also be selfish. When I use greetings that are about the person I’m addressing, I’m not doing because I want to “please everyone,” but rather because I try to be a decent, mature human being. If I tried to make it about me, me, me, then I’d be selfish.
You’re more than welcome to pity people who, when wishing others well, actually make it about the person they are talking to rather than themselves. I’m not sure what there is in that to “pity,” but then again I can’t comprehend why someone would make that about themselves in the first place. All I know is that such behavior is unreasonably selfish.
LOL..wow i don’t use my beliefs against others, I totally respect what others believe in. But it isn’t going to make me tell people Happy Holidays.
That’s exactly what you’re doing when you say “Merry CHRISTmas” even when you know they definitely or probably celebrate something else.
The above behavior does not community respect; it is instead a selfish expression of contempt.
It wouldn’t if you lack any desire to treat others with the same respect you would like to receive yourself. A selfish person would never think of others when choosing how to greet them; instead, a selfish person would only think about themselves and whatever greeting would make them feel better.
this is really an easy thing to solve….this is a Christian holiday based on the birth of Our Lord and Saviour…period! for those who don’t believe in Christ, don’t celebrate!!!,,,simple…like the other commentor said, don’t take the bonuses and the days off….go to work!!!………it started in this country as Merry Christmas and should always be….all non-belivers and immigrants can accept it and join in or be quiet and wait until its over…
Except for the fact that almost no aspect of how the holiday is celebrated has anything to do with Jesus or Christianity.
Why not just celebrate with the parts that are non-Christian?
I do work.
Actually, it started in this country with Christmas being banned by Christians because the holiday was insufficient Christian.
Maybe you should research a little history on the subject.
So, you don’t think that non-believers and immigrants have the same rights as Christians?
I’m gonna make this my last post but..looking into it more, I realized that nobody puts restrictions on jewish people for saying happy Hanukkah. nobody puts restrictions on african americans for saying happy Kwanzaa. nobody puts restrictions on atheists for saying happy solstice. so why is there a restriction on christmas? Am I really the one being selfish. To me, you sound like a hypocrite.
Nobody should be forced to say anything they believe differently, that includes businesses forcing employee’s to say “Happy Holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas” Or calling a Christmas tree a holiday tree.. As I said, I would hate to what would be done with me if I called a Menorah a jewish candle holder.
I would never offend someone around this time of year, it’s about “joy and peace on earth” ect.
If I’m offended by somebody telling me I can’t wish someone a Merry Christmas, then I can be offended and it doesn’t make me rude to be offended by something like that.
Like I said, this is a America. Up until the past 13 years it was always Merry Christmas, i do acknowledge that since this is America, we have many different cultures of people living in the US that have many different levels of beliefs..but to each their own..people should be able to celebrate how they want and say what they want to say and not have to worry about “Political correctness” because that is what makes us American..we have the right to do so. And in the right to do so, does not mean you being rude, I find it rude if someone tries to take away my rights, so stop pushing that.
No one has put restrictions on Christians for saying Merry Christmas, either.
You might want to get your facts straight before trying to make such absurd analogies.
There isn’t. I’m not sure why that’s so hard to understand.
Yes, when you make a greeting to another person all about you rather than about them.
To be a hypocrite, I’d have to be guilty of doing what I’m saying you’re doing. So, point out what I’ve done exactly and where.
Actually, businesses are completely within their rights to set standards on how to greet and treat customers.
When you make your greetings all about you, then you communicate that you don’t care if you offend anyone else or not.
And who has told you that? No one. So you’re getting offended at figments of your imagination.
Being offended at non-existent things isn’t rude.
No, “Happy Holidays” existed long before that – as did “Season’s Greetings.”
In this case, “political correctness” is basic manners and politeness. So what you’re saying is that you’re not selfish for not wanting to be bothered with politeness or manners.
You have the right to do lots of things that are rude. Just because something is a “right” doesn’t mean it’s polite.
No one is trying to take away any of your rights. You have every right to be rude to others. You have every right to be selfish.
“So, you don’t think that non-believers and immigrants have the same rights as Christians”
Shouldn’t we have the same rights as immigrants and be able to say what we want………..i will say merry christmas until i’m blue in the face…..it’s my right do so….that’s fine if you work…but do you take a christmas break or bonus???? if you do then you shouldn’t….
Who said you didn’t
Yes, it’s your right to be selfish and rude. It’s you’re right to use “Merry Christmas” as a cudgel rather than anything remotely like an expression of well-wishes.
No, I don’t.
I hate to break the news to you, but Christmas isn’t a Christian holiday.
Austin, if anyone is rude and selfish..it is you. Sorry, but that’s the truth. Nobody else is given restrictions on what they can and can not say. People these days freak out if you don’t say Happy Holidays sometimes and I think that is wrong and if that makes me selfish then fine.
AND I DID SAY THAT IF SOMEONE WISHED ME A HAPPY HANUKKAH OR ANYTHING ELSE I WOULDN’T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT, SINCE I DON’T CELEBRATE HANUKKAH, I WOULD SAY MERRY CHRISTMAS, THAT ISN’T BEING SELFISH SO GET OVER YOURSELF!!!
You are a hypocrite..thinking about the “rights of others” my A@#.
You’ve played that whole rude and selfish card way too many times.
I’ve already challenged you to make your case as I have done. You’ve refused.
Neither are you. Is it really so hard to figure that out?
I’ve already explained what behavior of yours is selfish. Several times. I’m pretty sure that you’re able to read and comprehend what I’ve written.
Yes, it’s being selfish to frame your greeting around a holiday that you celebrate but which you’re confident they don’t. It’s selfish because you’re making the greeting all about you rather than about them – even though such a greeting is supposed to be about them. That’s the very definition of selfishness: to put yourself above others.
You have yet to offer a substantive response to this. Shouting in all-caps “no it’s not!” isn’t a response.
Generous, gracious behavior means wishing them well on the holiday that you are confident they celebrate because it means wishing them well on the day they are commemorating with the activities they are pursuing. Wishing them well on a holiday that you are confident they don’t celebrate is meaningless at best to them; the only person for whom it can carry real meaning is you. Thus, it’s all about you.
And when you aren’t sure what they celebrate, “Happy Holidays” is the generous, gracious option because you are wishing them well on any and every holiday they might celebrate. Once again, it means putting them before yourself. It means putting their interests ahead of your own.
Saying “Happy Holidays” or “Happy Hanukkah” doesn’t harm you, damage you, or take anything away from you. You don’t lose money or anything like that. When you refuse to say it, inserting instead your own holiday, your greeting because entirely about you.
I’ve challenged you to support this accusation. Curious that you would repeat it without even trying to substantiate what you’re accusing me of.
Except for the fact that none of your rights are being threatened.
It would be more accurate to say that I’m not backing down from my position simply because you deny it. You’ve had plenty of opportunities to argue for why it’s not selfish to use a greeting that’s all about you and not at all about the person you’re addressing but you haven’t even tried. I suspect that it’s because you can’t. What’s more, I suspect you know you can’t.
Thinking the way I think doesn’t make me selfish. People can say whatever they want to say. That includes Merry Christmas. Saying Merry Christmas because a person celebrates Christmas doesn’t make them selfish. I never said that I would push someones beliefs away or make them feel less of me. I wouldn’t respond happy Hanukkah to someone that wished me a happy Hanukkah because i don’t celebrate Hanukkah. Like employee’s at stores during this time of year. Again, we’re American and we have the freedom of speech. It’s are duty to stand up for our rights. You can’t make someone say anything in particular and if you do, then you’re subtracting away from our rights.
People can say whatever they want to, I think in the least that is selfish. So if I wish someone a Merry Christmas and they reply happy Hanukkah because they don’t celebrate Christmas, does that make them selfish?
Most of my Christmas traditions don’t even revolve around Christ, in particular. I was raised as this time of year is Christmas time so therefore that’s what I celebrate, and i do acknowledge as celebrating the birth of Christ, but there is a lot more to it than that as well. Rudolph and Frosty and even the modern day Santa Clause isn’t exactly religious, so really pushing “Christmas” isn’t always about it in a religious context.
I mean, where does it stop? Since this is America are we soon not going to be able to fly the American flag anymore because there are many people that live here that aren’t from America or are living here on a visa?
Do we have to change all of our traditions to accomidate everyone? Where is the line drawn? I am tired of our government trying to dictate the way everybody lives their lives and what is “politically correct” these days to say. Part of living here is freedom. That is why I find it so wrong and offensive to change everything for everybody, because nobody is going to be pleased by what you do.
Adopting other cultures is great, that’s what makes America so great, but you also have to remember who you are as an American citizen and what this country was built on. This gives you the right to wish whatever you want, as long as you don’t infringe on their civil rights.
Putting your own interests and wishes ahead of others when the opposite wouldn’t cost you anything is what’s selfish.
Yes, they can. I’ve said that many times now, but it seems that no matter how often I say it you will keep pretending that someone is telling you the opposite.
Wishing them well on your holiday when they don’t celebrate it instead of wishing them well on their holiday that they do celebrate is what’s selfish because it’s putting yourself ahead of them.
Do you comprehend what “generosity” is? Generosity means sacrificing for the sake of others. It means giving and sharing instead of keeping for yourself. This is what you’re refusing to do.
So what? The point is to wish them well, not to wish yourself well.
This is the same as saying “I’m not going to will them well on their birthday because it’s not my birthday. I don’t celebrate their birthday, so I won’t wish them happiness on their birthday.” Do you have any idea how selfish and silly that sounds? When you reserve your well-wishes to others for the days that you celebrate, never the days they celebrate, you’re being selfish.
A generous, kind, decent person wishes others well on the days they celebrate. They wish others well on their birthday or not if the person would rather it remain unmentioned. They wish others well on their cultural, religious, ethic, etc. holidays regardless of whether they personally join in. I don’t celebrate Cinco de Mayo, but I’d wish a Mexican coworker well on that day if I knew they’d celebrate it. I don’t commemorate Bastille Day, but I’d wish a French coworker well on that day if I knew they’d celebrate it.
It doesn’t matter whether I celebrate it or not. They do. I’m wishing them well. I’m expressing my desire that they have a good, happy day. By the same token, I wouldn’t wish others a happy Bastille Day or Cinco de Mayo if I knew they didn’t celebrate it – the statement would be meaningless (except, of course, among intimate friends).
It’s generous and polite to wish people well on the days that are important to them. It’s selfish and self-centered to only wish people well on days that are important to you.
Which most accurately characterizes the behavior you’re defending?
Yes, you do. You have the right to tell a customer that they’re fat and stupid, if you want. If your employer fires you for that, you won’t have any legal recourse. Do you know why? Do you understand employment law and how “at will” employees can basically be fired for anything or nothing – even a whim? Do you understand employment regulations on things like uniforms and the treatment of customers are not regarded by the courts as infringing on free speech in any but the most extreme and unusual cases?
It would also be selfish for them to wish you well on a holiday that they are confident you don’t celebrate. Curiously, though, it’s unlikely for anyone but Christians to do this in America. Curiously, it’s only Christians who treat others like they should be celebrating their (Christian) holy days.
So why go out of your way to emphasize the “Christ” in “Christmas” unless you’re trying to use it as a cudgel?
Once again, no one is trying to deny you the legal right to say what you want. Every time you act like someone is and “respond” to that, you’re only responding to a figment of your imagination. It’s like a person arguing with themselves.
No, but would you argue that traditions should never, ever be changed to accommodate anyone?
Nowhere. I hate to break the news to you, but all traditions change. Every. Single. One. The “traditions” that are so important to you mostly didn’t exist a couple of hundred years ago. Christmas was at one time banned by Christians. Later it was a relatively minor and unimportant holiday. Traditions change. All of them.
The government hasn’t had anything to say about holiday greetings. You’re arguing with yourself again.
No one has advocated changing everything for everyone. You’re arguing with yourself again. Please, stop – it’s not healthy.
No one has said that you don’t have a right to wish others whatever you want. You can wish them that they get cancer and die horribly if you want – that’s your right. Why is it so hard for you to understand this?
The reason I am “arguing” is because you seem to see my views as atrocious. Also, not everything i’m saying here is directed to you but also how other people think. some people believe that you should never say Merry Christmas to anyone whether you know or not because it isn’t politically correct to ever wish someone a merry christmas. THAT is what I’m saying isn’t right..geeze it isnt always about you, you know. Now who’s selfish
I view selfish behavior as atrocious.
And you have yet to even try to offer any sort of defense of why it’s appropriate to only wish people well on days that are important to you but never, ever on days that are important to them if you don’t happen to celebrate those days. You studiously avoid the issue every time. Once again, I’m forced conclude that you probably do understand what the issue is and, more than likely, understand why it’s selfish.
Some people? Like whom? Can you cite even a single example?
Even if you could, that still wouldn’t be an example of someone infringing on your rights by trying to prevent you from saying Merry Christmas. How is that difficult to understand?
It’s not selfish to assume that you’d have the basic decency to address what I’m saying rather than unknown things said by unidentified people at some unknown time and who were never part of the conversation.
I have always said Merry Christmas & I will continue to say it. I am 61 years old and I am not changing anything now. For the people that do not like it don’t say it leave the ones that do alone.
MERRY CHRIATAMS TO ALL AND TO ALL A GOOD NIGHT.
One has to stand back and take it all in this time of year. The tyranny of the atheist fundamentalists is always a treat to watch.
Have you ever seen such limited thinkers in your life?
They beat their chests like caged prisoners yelling and condemning a God they say doesn’t exist.
How absolutley insane can one be?
It would be like me going on a tirade about the tooth fairy 365/24/7. That is essentially all they can do is whine, complain, and gripe about a GOD they say isn’t there.
Really,I don’t know whether to laugh or cry when I hear how desperate their attacks have become. I often ponder what happened in their lives to cause them to lead a life where their sole purpose is to see how many times they can complain about being offended?
Christians and Christianity are never going away so I guess they will just be offended forver.
Merry Christmas, indeed.
For example?
Sure: people who make accusations without being able to support them.
Well, you could accuse people of doing things they aren’t.
Citations, please.
You’re hearing things that aren’t there. Perhaps medication would be in order?
Who’s offended?
I do not mind whether people say Happy Holidays or Merry Christmas. I respond with Merry Christmas and feel great. What I do mind is seeing a minorah, Happy Kwanza, and happy every other religious group in public places like the San Francisco airport. What I do mind is the specific exclusion of Christian symbols. Since when did we have to apologize for our beliefs to keep everyone else happy? I don’t begrudge anyone elses holiday but please respect my beliefs as well. Don’t tell me that I do not deserve to celebrate my religion as well. I have 2 Hindus, 1 Buddhist, and 1 Moslem in my family and love them all. We all find our own way in life. But just because being Christian is not currently fashionable does not mean you have the right to deny me the sympols of my celebrations anymore than I do yours. I AM A CHRISTIAN. MERRY CHRISTMAS and HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO ALL!!
So, you feel good about yourself when you wish people well on a holiday they don’t celebrate but which you do celebrate? Is that why you refuse to wish them well on the days that are important to them – to make yourself feel better?
So, you mind it when non-Christians are treated as equals alongside Christians?
Feel free to cite examples of only Christian symbols being excluded anywhere.
And who has ever told you that you do not deserve to celebrate your religion?
LOL!! Are you delusional or just reading comprehension handicapped? My words are pretty self-explanatory.
It’s quite clear to any rational person the intolerance and soft tyranny of the atheist secular minority in this country. Threatening to sue schools for mentioning Christmas. Constantly threatening phony lawsuits against the Fed. Govt to try and erase “In God we Trust” from our currency. Threatening cities for offering a prayer invocation before a city council meeting. The list goes on and on but thankfully today the intimidation and bullying tactics are not working and the American people see that.
I mean look at how you act and lash out against anyone that goes against your God-trashing belief system.
Atheism is what it is. It robs one of hope and offers emptiness in exchange.
Serioulsy, I know of no one that would spend so much time spitting venom towards an entity they say doesn’t exist.
Who, other than you, would spend so much time in this endeavor? Clearly, you continue to be bothered by this God issue.
Ask God for help, he’ll help you.
The words are, but you have yet to support your claims.
Then you should be able to provide examples.
Examples and citations, please?
What’s a “phony” lawsuit and how, exactly, would the removal of that phrase qualify as “tyranny”?
Once again, where’s the “tyranny” in preventing a government body from promoting particular religious practices and beliefs?
So, lawsuits against sectarian prayers aren’t succeeding?
What system would that be?
Prove it.
Feel free to cite examples of me doing that.
Indeed, feel free to cite examples for any of your claims. It would be a welcome change.
This time of the year has always been a considered a celebration of the birth of Christ. Hence, Merry CHIRSTmas not Happy Holidays. It is unfortunante that society is not willing to remember that this country has been built on Christian/Biblical principles. No matter how much opposition no one can take away the gift Jesus our Lord has provided us.
What might that be you may ask? Eternal life in heaven and not death…
Merry Christmas!!!
For some people, not all. Not even all Christians have “always” done so.
Except for all the other holidays celebrated at this time of year.
Prove it was.
No more than the “gifts” of Odin and Apollo.
It’s amazing how Christians can transform what was supposed to be a an expression of well-wishes into a tribal marker they use as a cudgel against others. Christians’ aggressive, bad-faith pushing of “Merry Christmas” does more to turn me off of the holiday than even the over-commercizlization of it.
Merry Christmas! And have a Happy New Year
If you don’t like our traditions, go back home!
I am home, and when your “traditions” are merely an excuse for selfish, obnoxious behavior, then I’ll speak out. If you don’t like that, try formulating a substantive response to the arguments I make. Otherwise, you have nothing of value to offer any adult conversation on the matter.
There was one idiot up above that listed all the December holidays and for whatever reason he listed Boxing Day and Kwanzaa.
Clearly, this limited thinker is so cluelss that he doesn’t know that Boxing Day is a Canadian holiday. It’s news to me that Americans are directed to celebrate Canadian holidays now. OMG!
And Kwannza is NOT a holiday(religious or non-religious). Never has been and never will be.
Kwanzaa was founded as a black holiday in 1966 by a former black militant, Marxist and convicted felon named Ronald Everett. Ronald Everett rejected his “slave name” and adopted the title “Maulana,” Swahili for “master teacher,” and the name (Ron) Karenga (aka Dr. Maulana Ron Karenga).
Karenga invented the seven-day feast (December 26 to January 1) in 1966, declaring it a black alternative to Christmas. The idea was to celebrate the end of what he considered the Christmas-season exploitation of black Americans.
http://hnn.us/roundup/entries/9316.html
Speaking of limited thinkers: it’s originally a British holiday.
It’s news to me that anyone in America is “directed” to celebrate any holidays at all. There are, however, Americans who celebrate boxing day.
So it’s not a holiday… but it was founded as a holiday? Right, that makes sense.
I just had to comment on what*jenna* had said about XMAS:
“I celebrate CHRISTmas not X-mas not Merry Holiday. ”
I love this argument. I remember growing up and hearing how awful it was to say, gasp, Xmas, as if one is X-ing out Jesus. If these people would ‘bother’ to read their dictionary, they would learn/discover that yes indeed, X does NOT exclude their CHRIST, in actuality, it does include Christ. According to the dictionary:
while the “X” comes from the Greek letter Chi, which is the first letter of the Greek word Χριστός, translated as “Christ”.
My point being, people who ‘hate’ Happy Holidays will find argument with anything. These people need to stop being so darn nasty, selfish, and ignorant. Why do so many religious fundies get so pissed off, and feel this need to blast EVERYONE? I cannot understand why ’sheeples’ follow blindly so relatively easily. What happened to your brain, your common sense, your sense of humanity, or humility for that matter. Gosh, people get over yourself and get a life. There are MANY more people and faiths on this planet! And, give peace a chance? It’ll never happen, not with people around like this, they’d start a fight just to be right. How stupid. Sounds a lot like the Taliban…… do as I say, or else….
Life is too short as it is, why don’t you help your fellow man/woman, and actually put your *money* where your mouth is… Happy HOLIDAYS
I can’t believe I just wasted my time reading this blog. This entire blog is fruitless. While I understand the desire to state what you think or believe, this whole bickering certainly doesn’t give glory to God. I think Jesus would have moved on, kicking the dust off his feet. Merry Christmas! Happy Hanukkah! Happy New Year but not Happy Holidays. I know what I am celebrating!
Wow, an atheist site that doesn’t “give glory to God.” Next thing you know, we won’t be praising Odin.
So, you don’t wish others well on any other holidays they might be celebrating. How Christian of you.
“But yet they say it will offend nonbelievers, well that decision offends Christians!!
My atheism offends you? I think you need to grow thicker skin, then. You can’t be very confident or secure in your beliefs if you’re offended by disagreement.”
Austin, I would have to say that is a 2 wat street. If my faith, and choice to say Christmas, offends you, then grow thicker skin…or stop talking to me. See, there is the problem; you make that statement but his sense of this is correct. It started with athsists being offended by Christmas, or Christian saying, or, or, or. If you are truly an atheist then there is a simple thing to do. When someone says Merry Christmas just say thanks and move on. Take down your tree, toss out your presents and work on Christmas day. Since you aren’t Christian it shouldn’t matter. You have nothing to celebrate.
And as for Happy Holidays…which holidays? Yes, holiday is derived from Holy Day. And the reference is to Christmas day, a Holy day. Hanukkah is, by definition, a festival; The Festival of Lights honoring the rededication of the Second Temple of Jerusalem. The Hewbrews gave it a Holy reference due to the fact they ceased fighting on the day of rededication. But this has nothing to do with God other than the Temple.
Kwanzaa is a weeklong celebration of African heritage started on Dec. 26, 1966 by Ron Karenga. It is celebrated with lighting of candles, food, and libations and was started to give African Americans in the US an alternative to Christmas (direct from the Official Kwanzaa website).
So, again, what Holy day? There is only one Holy DAY and that is Christmas. So, as I said, if your are atheist, scrap it all and work on the 25th of December.
For everyone else, MERRY CHRISTMAS!
Who said I was offended?
I wish I had a nickel for every Christian who chose to argue against a figment of their imagination rather than something actually said and written by me. I’d be rich.
No, it started with manufactured outrage by Christians – just as they manufacture things to argue against. Is reality really so difficult to handle?
Feel free to demonstrate how that reaction is more consistent with “true atheism” than anything else.
There are lots of holidays at this time of year – including lots of Christian holidays. If your cultural blinders have hidden all but Christmas from view, then that’s your loss.
No, there are lots of “holy days” this time of year. What’s more, then origin of “holiday” in “holy day” is no more relevant than the origin of “Thursday” in “Thor’s Day.” Or don’t you acknowledge that New Year’s is a holiday?
That’s not even true for Christians. It’s pretty sad that some Christians have lost so much knowledge of their own religion and traditions that they no longer see anything but Christmas this time of year – and it’s no coincidence that it’s the only Christian holy day this time of year that’s been commercialized and secularized. The other days which have retained all their religious character have been forgotten.
So the only “holy day” you’re able to remember or notice is also the one that’s been thoroughly secularized. Perhaps you shouldn’t be lecturing secular atheists to ignore your secularized celebration.
I don’t understand how saying that CHRISTmas is a Christian holiday, is considered “Hate Speech”! This nation was founded upon Christian principals. Schools were started so people could read the Bible. The Bible was the 1st textbook. Look at the rotunda in our Capital Bldg. in D.C. It is filled with scriptures & pictures of people praying. Read our unrevised history books, the Constitution, each state’s constitution! God is mentioned everywhere! The early pioneers had traditions of praying before meals & reading the Bible after dinner. Churches were the spiritual & social centers of our society. There is a strategic effort being launched by the ACLU & other atheists, to demolish our Christian American history. When our history & heritage is being trampled, we see it as necessary to speak out the truth. Those who hate Christianity & the idea of God, seem to have more of a “hate” problem, than Christians who are simply wanting the truth to keep from being muzzled! Christians have no problem in other religions celebrating their own holidays during our traditional American CHRISTmas season. If they want to say Happy Hanneka, or whatever else, that’s up to them, but don’t try to bury Christmas and pretend it doesn’t exist or is not part of our American tradition. Immigrants have entered our nation with their own traditions. They entered American life! They can keep celebrating what they want, but DON’T DEMAND that we stop OUR CELEBRATIONS and traditions! If our traditions “offend” you, move to a country where your traditions are predominant. When I visit other countries, I don’t demand that they drop their traditions because they are not what I celebrate. If you are an atheist, adjust to the fact that you live in a traditionally Christian country. If freedom of religion is offensive to you, chill out and learn to become more tolerant! Appreciate the fact that you live in a country that will not behead you for not being a Christian!
No one said it was.
Prove it.
Except in the Constitution, which happens to be the founding document of the government.
Prove it.
You did know, didn’t you, that “traditional” Christmas is a recent invention and Christians in early American banned Christmas celebrations?
You mean, the way you’re so tolerant?
Just treat you like a second-class citizen.
Happy Holidays Everybody!
Austin, I do enjoy a healthy debate but as I read through your blog, clearly this debate is nothing more than a slam to any one who disagrees with your views. Your right, I was totally wrong for thinking this atheist blog would even think of giving glory to God. I never said I didn’t wish well of others on their holidays. But really, when someone tells me Happy Holidays, I seriously wonder what holiday they are speaking of. My calendar says Christmas! We do not wish people Happy Holiday on Valentine’s day, or President’s Day, St. Patrick’s Day, Easter, 4th of July, Labor Day, Memorial Day, COlumbus Day, Veteran’s Day, Thanksgiving and even New Year. Yeah… Happy Holiday to New Years. Makes no sense to me. But before you ream me a new one, I am clearly stating that it doesn’t make sense to me (and clearly many others as well – I’m just saying.).
It only seems that way because those I’m disagreeing with are doing such poor job at substantiating their claims.
So, that was hardly a “slam” was it?
Actually, that’s just what you do when you wish them well on your holiday which they don’t celebrate and deliberately refrain from wishing them well on their holiday which you can be confident they do celebrate. If you genuinely wish them well, then you would do so – and in reference to the day(s) that are important to them, not something that’s important to you. To reference an earlier comment of mine, this is a bit like wishing someone well on your birthday but not on theirs.
They are speaking of any and every holiday you are celebrating. If they don’t know you they can’t know for sure what days you observe. Not even all Christians observe Christmas; and some of those who do observe more than one holy day at this time of the year (you did know, didn’t you, that there are several important Christian holy days at this time of year? It’s no coincidence that Christmas is the best known but is also the most secularized and commercialized – thus the least “religious” anymore of the bunch).
It’s polite to not simply assume you know what days a person finds important enough to commemorate in any special way. Since there are few who observe nothing at all, not even New Year’s, a general “Happy Holidays” is most polite, most generous, least arrogant, and least presumptuous. It applies to all and doesn’t privilege one religion or sect above any others.
We do around Thanksgiving and New Year because those are times of multiple holiday. We don’t at the other times because they aren’t periods of multiple holidays.
So, it makes no sense to you to politely refrain from making assumptions about people you don’t know and what they might be celebrating, but it does make sense to you to wish someone well on a day they don’t observe while refusing to wish them well on a day you know they do observe.
How does that work, exactly?
Perhaps one reason why it doesn’t make sense to so many Christians is because they fail or refuse to genuinely put themselves in others’ shoes – they adopt a privileged perspective as a Christian and don’t see things from any other viewpoint.
Seasons Greetings Austin,
As I have taken a minute to review comments from yourself and bloggers, I am interested in what your main concern overall about the “Merry Christmas vs. Happy Holidays” is.
I think I’ve expressed my position multiple times.
Although an atheist, I seem to understand Xians concern about not saying Merry Christmas.
However, I have news for the Xians. Christmas is only one day,Dec 25. There is no such thing as a Christmas season.
So I propose that all stores post “Happy Holidays” except on Christmas, when they can change the signs to “Merry
Christmas”. Of course they will be closed, but technically, this should make the Xian extremists happy, shouldn’t it?
Or in Dec, the store personnel can say Happy Chanukah for 8 days, and Merry Christmas on Dec 25.
First of all, I want to make it clear that I often post on Austin’s blogs and the above “Lisa” is NOT me!
Anyway, I live in the bible belt. There is a facebook status going around that says something like “it’s merry CHRISTmas, not Xmas, Blah, blah.” I saw this post several times over a few days and posted a link to a site that explained the actual origin said “Xmas.”
I was called arrogant, rude, and told basically that I should not question other people’s beliefs.
I also was a supervisor in a call center for a major bank. I reinforced to all my agents, “You can say “Marry Christmas only if they say it to you first. Otherwise, say happy holidays or nothing at all. You don’t know who is on the other end of the phone.” I had people tell me that was wrong, that the bank should allow them to say “merry Christmas” to anybody. They just don’t get that others have different beliefs.
My latest post on facebook, today, was “Happy Saturnalia.” I have already gotten several comments about how it was “inappropriate.” I so do not understand why people are so self center. I also said “Happy 8th Night” several nights ago and got crap for that, too.
I will never understand why people think THEIR beliefs should be privileged and no one else’s should be.
Poor Austin
What is it with this “prove it” demand you keep repeating?
It makes you seem like some petulant child that is not getting their way. Prove it or I will continue to pout. LOL!
Sorry, but I refuse to do your homework for you, but there is this service called Google where you can type in “atheist intolerance” or “atheist bias” and see many, many examples of the tyranny of the atheist secualr minority.
And, yes, just as bullies in life never win the atheist bullies trying to erase America’s Christian history aren’t winning either.
Again, why do you keep deflecting the real issue of why do YOU constantly rage on and on about a God you say doesn’t exist? How does that make sense to any rational person?
How does it make you happy? How are your rantings against something you say isn’t there sensical? What is the final purpose of this distorted anti-Christian manifesto you write?
WHy? Why? Why? Why can’t you answer just one question? Can’t find the answer in your Dawkins or Harris book, I see.
It’s the expectation that people who make empirical claims can and will support those claims.
No, no pouting involved – if the people making claims cannot support those claims then they should be dismissed as unserious people with nothing of value to offer.
FYI, if you make an empirical claim then it is your “homework” to support that claim. It’s not my “homework” to go figure out if your claim has any merit.
If there were any examples that were credible and compelling, you’d have no trouble citing them.
Cite some examples of “atheist bullies trying to erase America’s Christian history.”
I won’t hold my breath waiting, though – I expect you’ll continue assuming that every time you make an assertion it’s somehow the job of everyone else to research it. Just because it’s you speaking. Because you’re special, right?
Cite evidence that I rage on and on about any gods.
You mean, how does it make sense to a rational person when you keep making accusations you can’t or wont’ support? I don’t know – I can’t imagine any rational person finding any sense in that.
Do cite some quotes from this mythical “manifesto” you claim exists. First, though, you might want to address the many other challenges that have been put to you.
I’d be happy to answer a question that didn’t make false assumptions. You have yet to ask such a question, sadly. Do you know how to?
Note: “mayhem” not only continues to refuse to support their many claims and accusations, but insists that they don’t need to. Pity, but not surprising. Few Christians seem to care about such intellectual values.
A thing not mentioned above: One might prefer ‘holiday tree’ rather than ‘Christmas tree’. I have read, “Thus saith the Lord,…For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. . . . They are altogether brutish and foolish.” (Jeremiah 10:2-8)
Something for the Christians to think on. I’m not saying it’s true, mind you.
Grandpa
I’m offended that anyone is putting pressure on anyone else to use the politically correct happy holidays instead of the tradition Happy Christmas. I am offended that such a small minority (only a part of the 27% that uses other terms instead of Happy/Merry Christmas) of the population can try to tell the rest (it’s 77% is the correct number by the way) how the shouldn’t act, and then tell Christians that they should be more worried about more important issues. Atheists are very supercilious about this issue. Strangely enough most Jewish people don’t seem to mind. Maybe they realize that Christmas is predominately a Christian holiday. So I will finish my rant by saying MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ONE AND ALL.
Feel free to explain why you don’t think “Happy Holidays” is simple politeness.
So, it offends you when someone tells you what would and would not be polite behavior towards them? Why do you consider yourself the final and sole arbiter of what’s polite behavior towards others?
Feel free to show how.
Strangely, “Happy Holidays” and “Seasons Greetings” originated with them. But don’t let facts get in the way of a good rant.
Except that it isn’t.
Funny how easily some Christians find it to transform “Merry Christmas” from a sincere expression of well-wishing into a tribal cudgel.
I’ve recently begun wishing people “happy whatever day it happens to be.” Christmas is one day, not a season. On Christmas day, I will say merry Christmas. How hard is that? On the 21st, I will say “Happy Solstice” On the 23rd, I will say, “Happy Emperor’s Birthday” On the 26th, I will say, “Happy Kwanza.” Get it? Good.
The phrase “Happy Holiday” is at least as old as the 1942 Irving Berlin song of the same name, and can be heard in the 1954 Bing Crosby musical, White Christmas.
Use of the phrase became widespread because people always adopt convenient shorthand for lengthy expressions that are frequently repeated.
That’s just how language works. Writers such as “mayhem” implicitly admit as much when they write “LOL!” instead of spelling out the full phrase.
The length and importance of the Christmas holiday season has been escalated mainly by retailers, who depend upon heavy spending during the final quarter of the year to reach their annual budgets.
It should surprise no one that sellers would gravitate to the more-inclusive phrase, “Happy Holidays.” No retailer wants any customer to feel as if his or her cash isn’t as welcome as the next person’s.
Happy Christmahannahkwanzaa everyone…
What I can never understand about all this is the Xtian idea that they are losing rights or freedoms, or that saying “Merry Christmas” is being forbidden.
I don’t see Xtians losing anything at all, esp. the ability to celebrate Christmas. It seems to be going on everywhere just the same as it always has. There are problems sometimes when a violation of the separation of church and state happens, but that should cause a problem. That separation is an important safeguard in our county. But there’s no separation between church and society, nor can I see that anybody is trying to impose one — if others have an example please give the specifics because I’m missing it.
As to the ability to say “Merry Christmas”, I’m an atheist and I say “Merry Christmas” all December long — I’d think if it were forbidden, particularly by other atheists, someone would have mentioned it to me. I go to all the meetings.
By saying Happy Holidays you include everyone. By saying Merry Christmas you exclude everyone who isn’t Christian. I think from the point of view of a business or even someone wanting to show courtesy throughout their day, the most efficient phrase to use is Happy Holidays.
All he is saying is that it is a superior phrase to use because its all inclusive. No one cares, least of all an atheist, what you say with your family sat round a dinner table on December the 25th…But on the street, day to day in the month of December, happy holidays really is the best phrase to use. No Muslim, Christian,Pagan,Buddhist,Sikh,Hindu,Jain will disagree with you there…it is after all the season to be jolly.
MERRY CHRISTMAS.
I hope everyone has a good one.