Atheist Muslim: Is Islam Both a Culture and a Religion?
Yazan writes:
I, too, consider myself Moslem. I was born to a Moslem family [My Grandfather, his father, his grandfather... were very important religious figures in their sect, although m father turned communist, that doesn't change the fact that everyone else in the family is deeply religious], I've lived in a country with an overwhelming majority of Moslems, albeit, most are moderate, but still.. I practiced a lot of the social traditions, I celebrate Eid, I enjoy the culture, I enjoy reading Quran, I enjoy the History, I feel proud to belong to such history. I enjoy a lot of the traditions.
I know very well that I've read about Islamic History more than half of whom they claim themselves as the "Protectors" of this religion.
I am a member of this civilization. I am a member of this culture, I'm not a member of this religion [Islam], but no one, has the right to say I'm not a Moslem. because, Islam, is also a cultural identity.
This is an interesting idea that deserves some consideration. Even if we assume from the outset that the conclusion is incorrect, the argument itself does something very important in that it forces us to focus on all the things which might be associated with Islam which aren't directly religious and/or aren't based upon monotheism. A person who wants to call themselves a Muslim atheist must focus exclusively on those things, so they contribute to discussions about Islam by broadening the scope conversation beyond a few religious doctrines.
Devoutly religious Muslims will insist that Islam is defined by a few basic tenets and practices. A Muslim atheist will insist that Islam is defined by historical and cultural products. Who is correct? Well, if the latter are correct, how can a person totally disconnected from that history or culture be a Muslim? How could I, for example, become a Muslim if Islam isn't fundamentally about certain religious beliefs and practices?
The blurry boundary between religion and culture is the problem here: when religion defines a culture, it's hard for people to leave the religion without wanting to hold on to the culture. In such circumstances, if you give up your religion does that mean you no longer have any cultural identity? Who are you now, really? If you do think you can hold on to your culture, what do you call is now if you can't use the label for your religion anymore? These are hard questions to deal with.
Comments
i know at least one atheist Jew. She was raised Jewish, but is a devout atheist. i’m atheist but raised in a xian home. My moral compass is generally aligned with xianity, but without the invisible sky wizard bit.
i would say yes, that one can refer to Islam as a culture and a religion. They are independent. One could be culturally western and embrace Islam as their religion.
That might be tricky for less open minded folk. We might need some other word for that phenomenon.
I have known several people from various Latin American countries who speak of atheist Catholics, sometimes referring to themselves. Catholicism in this case is so much a part of the culture, and is also important for various rites of passage, that they define themselves as Catholic, even though they don’t really believe in God.
I myself could never reconcile my atheism with a hybrid religious identity. But who am I to say others can’t? Interesting topic.
I think the entire question is fallacious. It is impossible to separate religion and culture into two equal and distinct entities, since religion is a subset of culture.
Does that make me Xian, Michael?
I am an atheist but have islamic roots. I celebrate the fesivals (the same way as the majority of atheists in the western world celebrate christmas, and go mad for chocolate bunnies over easter! This is the only connection my daughter has with her cultural roots (and her grandparents) for example.
Hi
It was mentioned in the Quran that Arabs are some how disbelievers and also mentioned that Allah would accept them and he would enclud them in his mercy so this is one way of being moslem atheist by being Arab.
LOL. People here suffer from extreme un-intelligence.
Any religion (or many things, a company for example) DEVELOP a culture naturally.
If you follow a culture that doesn’t mean you follow the religion. If you follow “Google culture” but you are not an employee for Google then you are not a employee for Google (even if u were) even if u follow their culture.
Do you even know what is the definition of a Muslim? Do you even get to decide? The definition should be (and is) in their book (The Quran). For example, if want to follow Islam or Christianity you want God to consider u a Muslim or a Christian, not makeup a definition, or follow your wishes.
What the article say, as well as some comments, is like a man who take an IQ test, get 0% and call himself a genius.
Calling someone Muslim because he follow the Muslim culture is like calling a dog a cat, insisting that it is valid because a dog eats drinks, is an animal,ect.
My Logic teacher laugh at this article and comments.
ya you could consider a dog a cat, but it is not. Whatever.
HOW PATHATIC
Of course it doesn’t, but you are begging the question (which is a fallacy, as your logic teacher should have informed you) if you assume from the outset that “Islam” can only refer to the religion and not also to the culture it has created.
I find it interesting — and informative — that you only choose to cite Islam and Christianity here. You choose not to cite or even reference Judaism, despite the fact that the situation for Jews is the very first one I reference. Could that be because you have no way to argue against the idea that there are Jews who are religious, but also Jews who are not religious yet still “Jewish” because of culture. If so, you are left with the need to explain why this development can’t occur with other religions.
Yet you don’t. Is this because you deliberately avoided the issue, or because you are simply ignorant of it? You can’t be ignorant of it if you read the whole article, but if ignorance isn’t the explanation then intellectual dishonesty is the only other real option.
If that’s the best description you have for the article, how would you label an attempted “rebuttal” which manages to avoid tackling any of the central issues and arguments?
The “real” religion always belongs as a secret to the sociopath who runs the show from the top. Everyone else is imperfect and wanting in some way. All religions establish who is boss based on obscurantism.
Hello Todd.
I highly doubt that your “moral compass is roughly aligned with Christianity”.
Do you think that innocent third parties should be punished for the crimes other people commit? This is the central tenet of the Christian myth. We need to remember this when people claim Christianity is “moral”. It is not, it is immoral. Don’t feel bad if you don’t agree with this myth - all Christians disagree with this message too, which is why no legal system in the world uses it, and, in fact all legal systems in all societies that were previously Christian-only punish the perpetrator of crimes, not innocent third parties.
Your moral compass is probably aligned with secular humanism, which has been the moral compass of western society since the Enligtenment. All Christians use Enligtenment values far more often in their life than they use Bronze Age Christian values, even though they do not know this, and won’t admit it even when it is proven to them.
Persisting in the “Islam is a culture” nonsense allows moderate Muslims to sheild extremists by accusing critics of their religion of racism (always a debate-stopper in free societies). Atheists, and any rationalists, need to understand this when they unthinkingly accept the claims of Muslims that their religion = their culture.
Non practicing Jews are usually called secular Jews. This term makes some sense, since the Jewish people have been ethnic outcasts for centuries, and their religion is to some degree also their culture. I can go with that. But their religion is not ALL their culture consists of. There are cultural stereotypes (some good, some bad) for Jews that exist outside of their religion, which means that religion is not ALL that defines their culture. Indeed, Jews are rejecting their religion at a pace that is in the US ahead of Christians, and in other nations at a comparable pace. When their religion is gone, their culture will not (necessarily) also be gone.
This does not apply to Christianity or Islam as much as to Judaism. Am I a secular Christian, because I live in a mostly Christian country and am descended from Christians? NO! I am an atheist Canadian. There is no “Canadian” way to observe Christianity, and there is nothing “Christian” about what makes Canadian culture unique or different than other cultures. My culture is national (and pan-national), and has nothing to do with any religion. Saying that by celebrating Christmas the way I do means that I retain a Christian framework in my culture is like saying that I retain Norse religious belief by using the word Thursday to describe a day of the week.
Muslims may share religious rituals and texts, but this is not all there is to their culture. They may share the culture of Islam, but their national and regional culture is more than just their religion. Therefore their “culture” cannot be simply equated with their religion, even if they think that is the case.
Los Angeles.
You fail to understand that a Jew who is an atheist is still ethnically(race) a Jew. An African American, Christian, Muslim, or Atheist, is still an African American. The decision to be religious, any persuasion, or not, is still largely determined by culture and family from birth. Whilst one is always born an atheist the decision to be one later in life is up to the intellect and life’s circumstances of every individual. Nobody becomes an Atheist or a Theist without external influences.
You also have a peculiar idea of “Culture”. Having travelled the “East” I can asure you that the Culture of Iran the Sudan,and Indonesia whilst they are predominantly Muslim are culturally poles apart. Arabia and Iran will apply Sharia law penalties, whilst Indonesian does not. The Burkah is enforced in Afghanistan but not in Turkey. The list is endless.
tomedgar@halenet.com.au
No Tom, what YOU don’t understand is that being Jewish, aka a follower of Judaism which is a religious belief system, is NOT a racial separation! An Asian can convert to Judaism, is that now their race of origin? People continue to confuse race, ethnicity and religiosity. There is a common secular Israeli culture for example, common to Israelis regardless of their religious beliefs. If you trace anyone’s genetic line you eventually will find a common lineage, does that make me Jewish? Ever heard of an Aryan Jew? African Jew? My wife is a child of a Aryan German mother who “converted” to Judaism to marry her Israeli Jewish father. They celebrated Jewish holidays/rites and xian holidays/rites, what is her race? Her secular culture is southwest Floridian. Any of you atheists out there that feel you can celebrate xmas without encouraging and endorsing xianity, please think again! When you blur the lines you confuse and corrupt the conviction!
Sorry Marc. Maybe I am being pedantic but I disagree. Believing in Judaism only makes you a “Believer.” It doesn’t make you a “Jew” Her Jewish Father doesn’t confer the designation Jew to your wife as the lineage in Judaism is down the maternal not the paternal line.
In Israel the identity card will only give the definition “Jew” if your heritage is down the maternal line.
Genetically we probably are from the one
line but it certainly wouldn’t be Jewish
unless you are one of the gullible who contribute to the idea that life only began with Adam and Eve 6 thousand years ago. I don’t.
Well yes I have heard of African Jews,
not readily accepted by many of the “Others” in Israel. As for the use of the designation “Aryan” this, strictly speaking, is for those of Indo/Iranian
origin. So once again the answer could be a qualified yes. So your use of the Germanic terminology for Aryan is somewhat misleading. Pedantry? Maybe. But. Terminologically correct.