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Austin Cline

Women Should be Protected, not Drafted

By July 17, 2006

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Men must register for the draft and, so, risk being called up for war. Women don't. Is this unfair discrimination, especially in light of the fact that women are assuming more and more roles in the military? Evangelical and conservative Christians argue that it isn't - and argue also that women shouldn't be doing so much in the military in the first place. According to them, women should be protected, not drafted.

Mark H. Creech wrote for Agape Press:

Is chivalry completely dead? Are men such wimps today that none are outraged enough to rise up and defend their wives, their sweethearts, their daughters, against those who would send them into harm’s way? Advocating women register for the draft is a life-threatening -- as well as a family-threatening -- danger to every young girl who is of draft age now or in the future.

We cannot possibly know what the future holds in terms of war or a reinstated draft that would require involuntary conscription of young women. ... Although I profoundly respect all women who have served in our nation’s military admirably, to require women register for the draft is not only uncivilized but also degrading to women and a serious attack on family integrity.

We should note that similar indignation could be expressed over drafting men — at least, if our indignation was a consequence of not wanting human beings to suffer through the horrors of war. Yet not such reaction is forthcoming from Creech, which means we must assume that sending a person to war isn’t the problem, only sending women is.

But why? Assuming that a women passed all of the physical requirements, it shouldn’t be a question of combat effectiveness. No, for Creech and those like him, sending women into combat threatens the “family” because it challenges traditional male and female social roles. Women are the nurturers, men are the protectors. If women are allowed to serve as protectors and warriors, that could undo all of the work that evangelicals have done to put women back in their place in the homes. We can’t have that, now can we?

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Comments
July 17, 2006 at 8:28 pm
(1) wes says:

Hey i mean if the femenists think they can join the army then they should realize that they are nominating all women to fight in a war. And I am a christian and I believe that if the femenists have been enabled to fight then they should have to learn the cold bloody lesson about war, which is that women were not made for combat, and for those females who think they should, i recommend a high daily does of estrogen because you are going to screw up alot of normal women unless you stop thinking only about yourselves. Stop being sorry for yoursleves, because you are really starting to look sorry.

July 17, 2006 at 8:48 pm
(2) atheism says:

And I am a christian and I believe that if the femenists have been enabled to fight then they should have to learn the cold bloody lesson about war, which is that women were not made for combat…

Prove it.

…and for those females who think they should, i recommend a high daily does of estrogen because you are going to screw up alot of normal women unless you stop thinking only about yourselves.

And what should we do with Christians who keep trying to screw up everyone else by pretending to know what is “normal” for other men and owmen?

July 17, 2006 at 11:12 pm
(3) Mike says:

I’m considering why males historically go to war. They are generally stronger. But in considering a small population it makes very good sense to only have men fight. Reproductive potential is determined by the number of fertile females in a population. Only a few men are needed to father a great number of offspring. Too many female deaths could make a small group / tribe unable to recover quickly. Of course this would most likely not be a concern in the U.S unless the number of causualties was huge. How do I feel about women being drafted? I’m not sure.

July 17, 2006 at 11:25 pm
(4) atheism says:

I’m considering why males historically go to war.

Depends upon the culture. In some places and times, women went to war as well. When the survival of the tribe or village is at stake, all hands are needed.

July 18, 2006 at 1:41 am
(5) Mrs Razia says:

Women must try to be among her families ,to teach her husband how to be a good human being.
Then ,if the men are hard at heart (depending how they have been raised up by their families), These men will chande their hearts and they will become softhearted, they will love their children.
What is happening in the house ,the men will try to apply it in the society.

The women must try ,with the help of God,to love her children,make them love peace and spread peace around them.
We must stop making wars in our homes, i am asking all those who are making wars all over the world to stop fighting and to forgive, let us try to accept our errors and put an end to wars which are making many victims on EARTH.

July 18, 2006 at 8:49 am
(6) DeGeorgetown says:

Wes- Stop saying “feminist” like it’s a bad word. What makes you think women aren’t cut out for combat? Just because historically they haven’t been allowed on the battlefield in major societies? You’re full of crap.
And what is a “normal woman”? One that is submissive towards you? Go burn in your Christian hell.

July 18, 2006 at 10:26 am
(7) John says:

Julius Ceasar noted there were women in the Celtic armies that conquered a swath of Europe from Ireland to the Adriatic.

July 18, 2006 at 11:26 am
(8) MooDogster says:

I’m so sick of people and their chauvinistic attitude toward this (it’s usually disguised as caring). War is bad for everyone involved; your genitals don’t make any sort of important difference. If we feel fine sending teenagers to the front, it doesn’t make sense for us to care about what those kids look like. If a man has kids who need to be taken care of, he shouldn’t be drafted in the first place: PARENTS should be at home, not just mothers.

October 23, 2006 at 9:47 pm
(9) Josh Canford says:

It seems that war is created and pursued by man which entitles responsibility to the man for combat roles.

October 24, 2006 at 6:27 am
(10) Austin Cline says:

Since creating and pursuing war is generally done from those in combat roles, your argument is circular, Josh.

September 8, 2007 at 5:12 pm
(11) not telling says:

This is sick and disgusting. Women can do whatever they want to. We aren’t back in the 30′s. Women don’t have to stay home and take care of the family, they can do whatever they want. Women are just as good as men. GET OVER IT!

October 30, 2008 at 4:55 pm
(12) uhhh.. says:

not that i dont agree that women can fight in war and all that good stuff but let’s face it…women are not usually physically built for things like combat like men are.

and really..would we want it to be required that women be drafted? i can’t imagine having prissy spoiled future paris hilton brat being put up on the war front “protecting” me.

and frankly i dont want to.

October 30, 2008 at 5:32 pm
(13) Austin Cline says:

not that i dont agree that women can fight in war and all that good stuff but let’s face it…women are not usually physically built for things like combat like men are.

Some women are. Some men aren’t.

Shouldn’t these decisions be based on the individual rather than generalizing about all?

and really..would we want it to be required that women be drafted?

Why not? They are already serving in what are effectively combat roles.

i can’t imagine having prissy spoiled future paris hilton brat being put up on the war front “protecting” me.

So because of a single women who is unfit to serve in combat, none should be able to?

November 7, 2008 at 3:54 pm
(14) John Hanks says:

Everyone should be protected and no one should be drafted. No one is naturally a warrior or a soldier. It takes a lot of training and propaganda to turn a sucker into a sociopath.

November 7, 2008 at 9:43 pm
(15) Tom Edgar says:

A little while ago a Soviet ship entered Brisbane Port. She carried four female crew the rest were male. The Captain and the Chief Officer were female. I would add, a couple of good looking sheilas too.

Some women can do anything that some men are able. Slinging a wounded compatriot over your shoulder and carrying him to safety? Give me 200 pound Marine, preferably a male one.

tomedgar@halenet.com.au

November 7, 2008 at 11:42 pm
(16) Bob says:

Ask any old German veteran about Russian women soldiers. Also check on the women partisans fighting with the Serbs against the Germans. Women are capable of fighting tooth and nail and giving no quarter.

The objections to women soldiers are much the same as objections here to women joining the fire service. Women are weaker unable to carry an unconscious male colleague to safety. The objections evaporated when it was found some women were stronger than men.

The only reservation I have is the possibility of sexual abuse if women are taken prisoner.

November 8, 2008 at 12:16 am
(17) Zack says:

The only reservation I have is the possibility of sexual abuse if women are taken prisoner. — Bob on November 7, 2008 at 11:42 pm

No prisoner, whether male or female, ought to be abused — sexually or otherwise.

Our own nation can set an example by treating all prisoners with due regard for their human rights.

November 8, 2008 at 2:03 am
(18) Tom Edgar says:

Zack…

Tell me you are not an American……

“Our own nation can set an example by treating all prisoners with due regard for their human rights.”

To list the American deviation from that ideal, both nationally and internationally,
would have me running out of storage for this brand new computer.

tomedgar@halenet.com.au

November 8, 2008 at 2:08 am
(19) Tom Edgar says:

P S.

The only time an American Female soldier was wounded and captured she was medically treated
by her Islamic captors and repatriated.NOT raped.

All the rapes in Iraq of American females have been committed by American troops and Blackwater employees with massive cover ups from higher officials.

November 8, 2008 at 2:12 am
(20) Tom Edgar says:

P S.

The only time an American Female soldier was wounded and captured she was medically treated
by her Islamic captors and repatriated.NOT raped.

All the rapes in Iraq of American females have been committed by American troops and Blackwater employees with massive cover ups from higher officials. This doesn’t even take into consideration reported rapes of Iraqi women, oh yes and some men.

November 8, 2008 at 7:59 pm
(21) Drew says:

Of course there is a place for women in the military, of any nation. It’s already been proven by experience. Equally obviously the average woman can’t physically do what the average man can do – but that’s a function of body size and strength more than of gender. Speaking as an infantry officer, in my trade women are always welcome. In other trades they are more prevalent, and always prove that gender is no predeterminant of competence in a military environment.

November 9, 2008 at 12:10 pm
(22) Zack says:

Tell me you are not an American…… — Tom Edgar on November 8, 2008 at 2:03 am

I am an American. North American, specifically, and a citizen of the United States, even more specifically. How about you?

To list the American deviation from that ideal, both nationally and internationally,
would have me running out of storage for this brand new computer. — Tom Edgar on November 8, 2008 at 2:03 am

Assuming, for the sake of argument, that this is true — so what? I said that no prisoner ought to be abused, and that we can set an example by treating all prisoners with due regard for their human rights. As far as I can tell, you agree 100 percent.

November 9, 2008 at 8:27 pm
(23) Tom Edgar says:

Zack

Yes I agree totally with your sentiments BUT.

You ignored the FACT that all the reported rapes of American serving women in Iraq were by Americans. Whilst the implication by you was that the occurrence would be from captors.

The abuses of prisoners, whilst never solely from one group, in Iraq has overwhelmingly been perpetrated by American troops on Iraqi prisoners and civilians.(your response “So What?”.) Guess that says a lot about your attitude to female abuse. The only time a female prisoner was taken by Iraqis she was treated humanely and returned, not kidnapped and renditioned. In Iran in a similar situation a British female R N captive was also returned, unharmed, along with her male counterparts.

As I always sign fully my offerings the “au” on the end of my address should have told you I am, thankfully, AUSTRALIAN.(by preference).

tomedgar@halenet.com.au

November 10, 2008 at 12:30 am
(24) Zack says:

You ignored the FACT that all the reported rapes of American serving women in Iraq were by Americans. — Tom Edgar on November 9, 2008 at 8:27 pm

I said I would assume, for the sake of argument, that you are correct about this. In what way is that ignoring it?

I am interested in knowing your support for such a claim before I accept it as fact.

Whilst the implication by you was that the occurrence would be from captors. — Tom Edgar on November 9, 2008 at 8:27 pm

Just because you inferred this doesn’t mean that I implied it.

(your response “So What?”.)– Tom Edgar on November 9, 2008 at 8:27 pm

My “so what” was in response to your claim that listing American deviations from the ideal would consume your hard drive space — a claim that doesn’t appear to invalidate my statement that we can set an example by treating all prisoners with due regard for their human rights.

Guess that says a lot about your attitude to female abuse. — Tom Edgar on November 9, 2008 at 8:27 pm

I will repeat my statement about the abuse of prisoners, since you appear to have overlooked it the first time:

No prisoner, whether male or female, ought to be abused — sexually or otherwise.

November 10, 2008 at 12:36 am
(25) Zack says:

As I always sign fully my offerings the “au” on the end of my address should have told you I am, thankfully, AUSTRALIAN.(by preference). — Tom Edgar on November 10, 2008 at 12:30 am

It did tell me that you have an Australian address, but I don’t like to leap to conclusions about such things, the internet being what it is.

We both are thankful that you are an Australian.

November 10, 2008 at 1:53 pm
(26) Patrick Alg says:

We men will need to sit out the next 200 years of war… We have spilt our blood, suffered in concentration camps, been tourtured by savages, and to what end… To constantly come back to a nation that won’t support you, help you rehab your mind, or make it available to have a step up for your actions…
It is now the womens turn to pick up the Pitar, to fight and die by the hundreds… I once asked a U.C. Davis class if they women felt they should be treated as equals, equal pay, equal work, equal rights… All raised their hands… Then when asked if they should also fight and die as men have been required to do , all of the hands went down…
I’m ashamed to be here next to these cowards…. Ashamed….
Don’t ask for sympathy…
Don’t…

November 10, 2008 at 8:32 pm
(27) Leola says:

Look people. This is a touchy subject for everyone. You should think about that before you slam someone down who has put up their opinion before you. It’s hard to realize that when people get so worked up about it and let their emotions get in the way. The facts are, we (the United States) have a larger military body than when we actually had a draft. When there was a draft in effect, people in ways, resented having to go into combat. But because we do not have a draft, and have not since 1973, people are volunteering their…lives willingly now. We don’t need a draft. But, when it comes right down to it, in ways, it is right to keep the women home and out of the draft. We often don’t have the same physical strength that a male has, and we are often more likely to let our emotions get in the way (though in certain situations, that could be a plus). I mean none of this in an offensive way, but I’m just saying in general, and am not including those of you out there who aren’t included in this. We women should take pride in the fact that, yes, women are the home makers and the peace keepers. In WWII, when all the men were gone, we were the ones that stepped up and kept the country from falling apart. We took care of the kiddies at home, kept up the cleaning and the cooking, but besides that, we also took the places of men at their work place. We are the keepers of generations and hearts, so don’t spit on your heritage. I’m proud to be a woman. I clean, I cook, I can change diapers, but that is something that I’m proud to do. But by God, I can also think! And if it’s something your not proud to be able to do, sign up for the military! I’ll salute you, just as I salute my brother, because you will be his equal, and for all I’m concerned, always have been. All you have to do is step up to the plate and take your place, there is no one latched onto your hand and holding you back. I get offended though when women get offensive because men want to protect them. You should be happy that your even worth protecting, not whining that your not included in something that is so deadly.

(Please forgive me if my writing is somewhat confusing, I’m still working on my writing organization skills.)

November 10, 2008 at 9:21 pm
(28) Austin Cline says:

But, when it comes right down to it, in ways, it is right to keep the women home and out of the draft.  We often don’t have the same physical strength that a male has, and we are often more likely to let our emotions get in the way (though in certain situations, that could be a plus).

Unless this is true of all women and all men, then what you are offering here is at best a reason for some women to be kept out of the military.

Why should a strong, capable woman not be subjected to the draft simply because some other women aren’t as physically strong?

We women should take pride in the fact that, yes, women are the home makers and the peace keepers.  

Why?

I clean, I cook, I can change diapers, but that is something that I’m proud to do.  

And it’s not something men should do?

January 8, 2009 at 4:18 pm
(29) Jules says:

Men are not homemakers like women and women are not soldiers like men. Some women are built for the army, but not every single one is. You cannot take a way the choice from women. If women want to be in the military, it should be up to them to decide; they shouldn’t be forced to serve. Why do you all want to impose on peoples rights? Yes it sucks that men are already in the draft, so why are you trying to do the same thing to women?

April 13, 2011 at 9:03 pm
(30) not telling says:

i agree women should have a chose

January 8, 2009 at 4:22 pm
(31) Austin Cline says:

Men are not homemakers like women and women are not soldiers like men.

Only patriarchal, misogynistic culture prevents it.

Some women are built for the army, but not every single one is.

Not every single man is.

You cannot take a way the choice from women. If women want to be in the military, it should be up to them to decide; they shouldn’t be forced to serve.

But it’s OK to force men to serve?

Why do you all want to impose on peoples rights? Yes it sucks that men are already in the draft, so why are you trying to do the same thing to women?

Equality.

January 8, 2009 at 4:28 pm
(32) Millie says:

I AM PROUD TO BE A WOMAN.
PROUD TO BE A HOME MAKER.
PROUD TO BE A CHRISTIAN.
PROUD TO BE A CONSERVATIVE.

Drafting women is messed up! Feminists need to take a good look in the mirror and see if they can handle war, because I can’t handle it and I at least admit it! Throughout history war has been a man’s game. I hate people who say “We’re not living in the 30s anymore….
oh please, life would be better if we were living back then. Besides the war, we wouldn’t have all these crazy crazy liberals letting their emotions make decisions and taking away peoples rights! One of my favorite quotes is, “a Liberal is a teenager who never matured.” Oh by the way I am probably going to get a bunch of comments about this, but I don’t care. Because I’m conservative and Liberals should learn that to conservatives, all your left wing comments just look plain stupid. and thats the way it works, Conservatives watch the liberals make stupid decisions.

January 8, 2009 at 4:33 pm
(33) Austin Cline says:

Drafting women is messed up!

More messed up than drafting men?

Feminists need to take a good look in the mirror and see if they can handle war, because I can’t handle it and I at least admit it!

Not all men can, either.

Throughout history war has been a man’s game.

Throughout history, women have gone to war as well.

I hate people who say “We’re not living in the 30s anymore….oh please, life would be better if we were living back then.

What would be better – the separate drinking fountains? The lack of equal opportunities for women?

Besides the war, we wouldn’t have all these crazy crazy liberals letting their emotions make decisions and taking away peoples rights!

For example?

One of my favorite quotes is, “a Liberal is a teenager who never matured.”

Is it your favorite because it’s an insult?

Oh by the way I am probably going to get a bunch of comments about this, but I don’t care.

Would you care enough to support your claims?

Because I’m conservative and Liberals should learn that to conservatives, all your left wing comments just look plain stupid.

And how do you suppose unsupported claims or insults look?

and thats the way it works, Conservatives watch the liberals make stupid decisions.

Feel free to explain your criteria for a “smart” decision.

January 9, 2009 at 8:31 pm
(34) John Hanks says:

Some people are suited for combat and some are not.

January 10, 2009 at 3:58 am
(35) Salil says:

Anybody who doubts that women can not be physically strong and hence incapable for a war, just needs to go to the nearest neighborhood gym and watch women lift up heavier weight than (some) men do and run longer and faster than (many) men.

January 10, 2009 at 6:30 pm
(36) Tom Edgar says:

Millie

Leaving aside that Liberal in Australia, or Britain is a Party that is center/right and Conservative is extreme right.Labor/Socialist is slightly left of center.

Most European countries by your standards would be extreme left. Most European (Australia and N Z too) countries also have a higher standard of education, health care and social welfare. Greater equality with better wage standards and working conditions. None are perfect, but compared to the U S A the overall standards are preferable to the fascist mentality and extreme right wing political attitudes of the U S A.

My oldest friend recently died at ninety she was a lieutenant nurse in the N Z army in North Africa/Egypt in WW2. The first combat death of the British in WW2 was a WOMAN when she was a crew member of a British Merchant Ship. A Russian ship recently arrived here with a Captain and a First Officer both WOMEN.
Commanding a crew of MEN.

I do believe Joan of Arc and Queen Boadicea were women.

I would sooner see no PERSON anywhere in the military. But until WOMEN in particular and all men, oppose totally, wars and especially those promoted by both male and female politicians who themselves have avoided armed conflict.e.g,. Bush/Blair/ and Howard the world will, sadly, need cannon fodder. So you stay at home and bravely send the suckers in to battle. Then tearfully welcome home those who made it home, in coffins. Politicians do this publicly to garner votes.
Hypocrites all. Send your uniformed “Hit Men”
thousands of miles away to murder people who have never harmed you but stay at home yourselves, then pretend you are not part of the killing of the innocents. You are still part of the killing machine. The blood of every tiny child is still on your hands as much as the trained killers who pulled the trigger or dropped the bombs, or even supplied the Israelis as your de facto military extension.(Contract Men)..

January 12, 2009 at 9:52 am
(37) Rick says:

I think that comment is disgusting. Why is it perfectly acceptable for sons, fathers and husbands to be potentially sent to their deaths yet women get protection.

The concept of chivalry is a dated ideal that goes back to the days where women would be expected to be in the kitchen, in modern society, if we want equality, we must sacrifice chivalry.

I also dislike the idea that women are the only essential part of a family. Its OK if a child loses a father, they don’t matter, but a mother? Oh no! Both parents play a role of equal importance in the child’s development.

I think its naturally built into our subconscious to feel less sorry for a man’s death than for a woman’s death, women’s lives are assumed to be more important and I think this is very wrong.

January 13, 2009 at 12:58 pm
(38) FordManiac76 says:

I agree if you are capable mentally and physically you should be able to join the infantry – man or woman (no double standard in qualification prerequisites). I think you are all missing the challenges facing the modern military in this day and age. With the sexual liberation of the woman’s mind and the large number of enlisted woman the demeanour over in the war zones has become a frenzy of fraternization and flirtation distracting the soldiers from their mission and ending with many war zone pregnancies. Whether intentional or not the woman must be shipped home immediately thus providing an out for any woman that doesn’t want to go or be there.

January 15, 2009 at 1:54 am
(39) john says:

I try not to be like this, but it’s very late and I am too tired to go into all the things I’d like to respond with.

So, I’d just like to sum up that Millie is an idiot.

Goodnight.

April 13, 2011 at 1:02 pm
(40) john says:

just saying some one is an idiot is not going to help you in any way john

March 26, 2009 at 6:06 pm
(41) Frank Mitchell says:

john, you called Millie an idiot. So, when you’ve rested, please back up your statement with some sort of rational argument. Simply calling people idiots contributes nothing to any discussion.

March 31, 2009 at 12:27 pm
(42) Danny says:

actually women have been taken prisoner and sexually abused…just because you only know of one case doesnt mean that all cases are like that…I dont think women or men should be drafted…and women have a choice and so do men…because as of right now there is no draft and it dosnt look like there will be…

April 5, 2009 at 4:03 pm
(43) diana vega says:

i don’t think women should be included in a draft. i know that they are alot of women that can do jest as good as a man sometimes better but to include all women will not work because they are some that can’t handle it and others that feel it is not there place

April 5, 2009 at 5:09 pm
(44) Austin Cline says:

i don’t think women should be included in a draft. i know that they are alot of women that can do jest as good as a man sometimes better but to include all women will not work because they are some that can’t handle it and others that feel it is not there place

The same can be said about men: some can’t handle it and others feel it is not their place.

April 8, 2009 at 1:54 pm
(45) Frank Mitchell says:

I don’t have good feelings about women in the fighting forces. Women evolved as givers of life, and not as takers of life. So I don’t think a woman should be drafted into a unit where she will be expected to fight and kill. It’s even worse when she herself chooses to join a fighting force because she has chosen killing as a vocation. I find that creepy

April 8, 2009 at 4:41 pm
(46) Austin Cline says:

I don’t have good feelings about women in the fighting forces.

And are your “feelings” sufficient basis to deny equality to half the population?

Women evolved as givers of life, and not as takers of life.

Evolved, or have been socialized by men?

So I don’t think a woman should be drafted into a unit where she will be expected to fight and kill.

You say that as if it’s been uncommon for women to fight and kill through history.

It’s even worse when she herself chooses to join a fighting force because she has chosen killing as a vocation. I find that creepy

Again, are you feelings enough to deny equality to half the population?

April 8, 2009 at 5:34 pm
(47) Frank Mitchell says:

Austin, in reply to your questions:

Q: And are your “feelings” sufficient basis to deny equality to half the population?”

A: I’m afraid I simply don’t have the POWER to deny “equality” to half the population! Whatever gave you that idea?

Q: Evolved or have been socialized by men?

A: I really do mean “evolved”. Men didn’t give women their wombs…

Q: You say that as if it’s been uncommon for women to fight and kill through history.

A: Yes, it has been uncommon as far as organized killing in armed forces is concerned, barring exceptions.

Q: Again, are you feelings enough to deny equality to half the population?

A: Again, I’m not that powerful!

April 9, 2009 at 9:12 am
(48) Danny says:

I agree with Frank.
Women were created to have babies and raise children.NOT TO FIGHT!!!
yes some of them choose to and more power to them. No I am not saying all women should do is have children and do nothing else…I’m just saying that they were created for that purpose and to be a companion for men…

August 10, 2011 at 8:04 am
(49) Sally says:

What a charming Neanderthal you are, Danny Boy

(Ooops, I hate insulting Neanderthals)!

April 10, 2009 at 6:15 pm
(50) Andrew says:

I believe women should be drafted, just as men are. Why not? All positions in the military aren’t only combat positions. If women want equality, give them equality. Equality’s a double-edged sword.

April 23, 2009 at 7:31 pm
(51) billy clay says:

i run a business and there is a lot of heavy work well i hire women because if i don’t i’m afraid i’ll get sued well i have to keep moving them around because they cant do the work and if i get a little loud at them some will start to cry well i thought to myself i hope they never draft women because there wiil be a lot of woman they will have to keep moving around and a lot that will start to cry i’m not saying that all women are like that but i have seen a lot like that in my time if you draft all women you will have a lot of women who will be in the way jest let them join if they want to

May 14, 2009 at 3:15 am
(52) tiny tim says:

If woman don’t have to register for the draft,men should not have to register for the draft.

May 19, 2009 at 12:12 pm
(53) diana vega says:

men if you are real men you would not want women to be drafted

May 19, 2009 at 2:20 pm
(54) Austin Cline says:

men if you are real men you would not want women to be drafted

Why?

May 19, 2009 at 7:04 pm
(55) draco says:

All these issues set aside, how about we focus on the fact that women have fought to have equal rights to a man. Coming from a pacifist woman, I’ll still strongly support women in a draft. I don’t support a draft but if there were to be one, women should not be excluded. With rights comes responsibility and we can’t take all the privileges and none of the responsibility can we?

May 20, 2009 at 8:28 am
(56) diana-vega says:

i wonder what god thinks of men wanting to put women in harms way womens bodies were not made for battle a lot of women hurt themselfs trying to do things like men in the past men had all the rights women couldn’t do nothing maybe that’s way they want to put then in harms way there mad because they cant’t push then around anymore if you were a real man you wouldn’t want women to be drafted

May 20, 2009 at 8:33 am
(57) Austin Cline says:

i wonder what god thinks of men wanting to put women in harms way

That isn’t relevant.

womens bodies were not made for battle

Says who? Women have fought in wars throughout history. Many nations have women in their militaries.

a lot of women hurt themselfs trying to do things like men

So do a lot of men.

in the past men had all the rights women couldn’t do nothing

Like be treated as equals in the military?

maybe that’s way they want to put then in harms way there mad because they cant’t push then around anymore

Or maybe it’s a desire that women be treated as full equals?

if you were a real man you wouldn’t want women to be drafted

Why?

May 21, 2009 at 8:22 am
(58) jr gore says:

women should not be drafted because you don’t know what you’ll get
there are a lot of women who will be all wa wa wa there’s no crying in the army WA WA WA WA oh it’s to heavy you were looking at my breast i’m sueing there might be some women who won’t do this but there is going to be a lot that is

May 21, 2009 at 9:43 am
(59) Austin Cline says:

women should not be drafted because you don’t know what you’ll get

Whereas all men are the same?

there are a lot of women who will be all wa wa wa there’s no crying in the army WA WA WA WA oh it’s to heavy you were looking at my breast i’m sueing there might be some women who won’t do this but there is going to be a lot that is

You know this from experience, do you?

June 5, 2009 at 7:44 am
(60) jr gore says:

yes i do i was in the army i over heard some women talking they didn’t like it there they thought they would be treated different then the men and they wanted to get out i didn’t say anything about what i heard because i had told something in the past it went up in my face i vowed to myself i would never do that again but i did tell my male comrades to stay away from those women it went like this they would cry all the time if an officer would yell at them they cry harder everything was to heavy one of my male comrades didn’t listen to me when i told him to stay away from a women who was flirting with him when he responded she filed for sexual harassment i didn’t know what come of it because i had to leave because i had gotten sick and went into the hospital when i was home i talked to some men who said that sort of thing went on all the time and these women joined what do you think will happened if you drafted then i don’t think women should be drafted they will cause men problems

June 5, 2009 at 7:49 am
(61) Austin Cline says:

yes i do i was in the army

Given the total lack of grammar, punctuation, and coherency in your comment, I have trouble believing that you’ve ever been in the military. That, and the fact that you didn’t answer my first question, leads me to reject your statements as true.

Work on making yourself comprehensible, and then maybe you’ll be credible.

June 5, 2009 at 12:40 pm
(62) jr gore says:

my statement is true i was in the army
i don’t waste my time with punction with things like this
as i told you i had to be sent to the hospital
i went into a coma i had to learn how to walk and talk again and i still have trouble getting things out
for a long time i didn’t even remember being in the army after a while things started coming back
and yes you don’t know what you’ll be getting with men either but i think the military will be better of with a man who doesn’t want to be there than a woman if she’s the kind of woman who does whatever she can to get her way and the men better look out

June 5, 2009 at 4:16 pm
(63) Austin Cline says:

i don’t waste my time with punction with things like this

Because communication and meaning are such a waste of your time?

and yes you don’t know what you’ll be getting with men either but i think the military will be better of with a man who doesn’t want to be there than a woman if she’s the kind of woman who does whatever she can to get her way and the men better look out

Because men never do whatever they can to get their way, right?

June 6, 2009 at 10:01 am
(64) jr gore says:

it’s not a wast of my time if i sit here and try to think to herd i get a killer headache

crying winning batting eyelashes being womanly does not work for a man like it does for a women

June 6, 2009 at 10:08 am
(65) Austin Cline says:

it’s not a wast of my time if i sit here and try to think to herd i get a killer headache

If using punctuation requires thinking that’s too hard, then forming a coherent and truthful argument must also be too hard — which effectively means your position has to be dismissed.

crying winning batting eyelashes being womanly does not work for a man like it does for a women

This doesn’t answer the challenge I posed, which is understandable if forming coherent and factual thoughts isn’t something you are able to do.

June 6, 2009 at 10:07 am
(66) jr gore says:

that was to be hard not herd my hands don’t want to work today

June 8, 2009 at 11:50 am
(67) John Long says:

i don’t think there will be a draft.
If there is and women are included
they’ll be sent home if they can’t
pass the test along with the men who
couldn’t pass.
So women if you don’t want to be there
act like you can’t do anything
Like some of you do now.
that goes for the men as well but,
being on this earth for almost 40 year
I must say it works better for the women.

August 24, 2009 at 1:39 pm
(68) Luc says:

Should women be drafted?

1) If all adults are on the battlefield, no one is minding the children or the homeland.

2) Men would become overly protective of the women, especially if a relationship begins, and be distracted from tasks at hand.

3) If bunked together the men and women would be prone to sex. This would, undoubtedly, lead to unwanted pregnancies and coat-hanger abortions.

4) Funding would increase dramatically.

5) If a man is captured he is prone to physical abuse and death. If a woman is captured she is prone to physical abuse, death, and rape, (even gang rapes).

6) One man can impregnate many women, but one women can only be impregnated once at a time. A diminishing of women would mean a diminishing of population.

7) Men can go months without sickness, but women are guaranteed to be ill, at least, once a month. The higher percentage of women in the force, the less reliable the health of the force is.

Many nations have, at one time, allowed women in combat. All but Israel have banned this for the listed reasons and more.

August 24, 2009 at 4:50 pm
(69) Austin Cline says:

1) If all adults are on the battlefield, no one is minding the children or the homeland.

Why would all adults be on the battlefield? Not all men go now.

2) Men would become overly protective of the women, especially if a relationship begins, and be distracted from tasks at hand.

So why shouldn’t the men learn to change?

3) If bunked together the men and women would be prone to sex. This would, undoubtedly, lead to unwanted pregnancies and coat-hanger abortions.

That would be no more of a problem than now.

4) Funding would increase dramatically.

Why?

5) If a man is captured he is prone to physical abuse and death. If a woman is captured she is prone to physical abuse, death, and rape, (even gang rapes).

Then we shouldn’t send men into battle either.

6) One man can impregnate many women, but one women can only be impregnated once at a time. A diminishing of women would mean a diminishing of population.

Yet we don’t institute polygamy after wars. Apparently, not so many die that this is a real problem.

7) Men can go months without sickness, but women are guaranteed to be ill, at least, once a month. The higher percentage of women in the force, the less reliable the health of the force is.

Women aren’t “ill” once a month, and even that can be regulated chemically.

Many nations have, at one time, allowed women in combat. All but Israel have banned this for the listed reasons and more.

The reasons are nonsense, demonstrated first and foremost that Israel manages quite well.

September 1, 2009 at 4:55 pm
(70) seathanaich says:

Luc (65) wrote:

“Many nations have, at one time, allowed women in combat. All but Israel have banned this for the listed reasons and more.”

The Canadian Army currently has women in combat. I’m sure eithers do too, but I can prove the Canadian Army does because I’m in it, so that disproves your claim.

Luc, if you’re just making stuff up, your opinions are worthless. Don’t spout your opinions if they’re not based on true information.

September 1, 2009 at 6:06 pm
(71) jethom33545 says:

This is the 21st century.If we are going to have a draft it should be for everyone.Two years of national service with options wouldn’t be a bad idea.

If women want to serve then they’ve earned the right.Its their decision,not some conservative misogynist.In my experience women are tougher and stronger than men.

September 1, 2009 at 6:19 pm
(72) ssgchester says:

Where the idea of women not going into combat I’ve not idea. Women have been in combat since the beginning of time. You know, protecting home and hearth and so on. Women were drafted in England during World War II. Women have passed themselves off as men to service in the US since the American Revolution, the Civil War, and so on. However, it wasn’t until World War I that the women actually served in more then a nursing role.
In World War II, women found in the Resistance organizations throughout Europe. In the former USSR, they fought next to the men. One of the Russians best snipers was a women.
Now the idea of bunking men and women together happens out of circumstances. Just because they bunk together does not mean men and women are going to have sex. Even where some commands have actually “banned” sex, it still happens. And if I might remind you, there are married couple in the US Military who served together. Something tells me they just might be having sex. Just might.
As for more coat hanger abortions, I’ve no idea where that idea comes from. Especially in today’s world where women have access to the so called “Morning After” pill, oral contraceptives and oral pregnancy termination pills. OK, “abortion” pills.
And, the service does make condoms available. They even did that during World War II. Sorry, that’s nothing new.
I myself, am for the drafting of women. I see no difference in having excuses against drafting women and not allowing women to serve in the armed force. We have not only female Military Police, truck drivers, medics exposed to combat but all fields are exposed to it.
All service members in the US Army are trained to be “basic soldiers.” They receive training in firing weapons, patrolling, security, and so on. They have to. The reason is, there aren’t enough troops. That’s one reason we have contractors supporting the troops in Iraq and the Afgan.
It’s 2009, not 1909. Deal with it.

September 1, 2009 at 8:50 pm
(73) Tom Edgar says:

WW2 vet and a volunteer.

I am against conscription. Male or Female.

I am against volunteering. Let the Politicians who lead you into wars lead you into battle. Preferably single combat.

September 2, 2009 at 10:06 am
(74) AtheistGeophysicistBob says:

Korean War veteran.

Tom Edgar. I agree with both of your comments.

September 2, 2009 at 10:11 am
(75) AtheistGeophysicistBob says:

I forgot to say that I was a volunteer.

September 3, 2009 at 7:18 am
(76) TRUECRISTIAN says:

ATHEISTS;Whom did these monsters serve? Who directed the criminal, terrorist, and harmful activity of these vicious traitors to the Motherland? What goal did they want to achieve by the murders OF AMERICA? Has been determined that all participants of the terrorist group of
ATHEISTS were in the service of foreign intelligence; having sold
their bodies and souls, they appeared as hirelings, paid agents.THE
AMERICAN people should not for a minute forget about the need to
heighten their vigilance in all ways possible, to be alert for all
schemes of war-mongers and their agents, to constantly strengthen the
Armed Forces and the intelligence organs of our government. But it is
also true that, apart from these enemies, we still have another enemy:
the lack of vigilance of our people. One may not doubt that, as long
as we are absent-minded, there will be sabotage. Consequently, in
order to liquidate sabotage, it is necessary to purge lack of
vigilance from our ranks.

September 3, 2009 at 11:01 pm
(77) Tom Edgar says:

# 73.. Is this for real? Can’t even spell Christian.

If it is real. Where are the men in white coats?

If it is real. Not all the Nazis made it to Argentina.

If it is real. Makes me even happier I’m not American.

September 4, 2009 at 2:28 pm
(78) AtheistGeophysicistBob says:

After reading TRUECRISTIAN (73), I planned to comment; however, Tom Edgar’s 2nd comment anticipated mine!

September 6, 2009 at 12:33 pm
(79) fauxrs says:

Alas Tom, it is almost certainly real and it makes me sad.

September 7, 2009 at 12:17 am
(80) Tom Edgar says:

America has the distinction of having more prisons than anywhere else and growing exponentially.

If you let out most of the prisoners and turned the Penitentiaries into mental institutions, then incarcerated all the people such as # 73 you would raise the I Q average of free Americans.
Pobably still have to keep on building though.

September 8, 2009 at 1:31 am
(81) TomSwift says:

Men, in general, are stronger,faster, and more bloodthirsty than women.

This can be proven by Olympic stats and murder statistics.

“Some women are. Some men aren’t.
Shouldn’t these decisions be based on the individual rather than generalizing about all?”

What would you do, test everyone who is drafted? How would you prevent people from trying to look weak so they don’t get drafted?

“So why shouldn’t the men learn to change?”

Unfortunately, even in a society where everyone is atheist, I highly doubt that “men will change”. If you could change behavior, you could simply eliminate war in the first place.

September 8, 2009 at 6:28 am
(82) Austin Cline says:

Men, in general, are stronger,faster, and more bloodthirsty than women.

This can be proven by Olympic stats and murder statistics.

Men who are weaker than the male average are no exempted from the draft, so why should women who are stronger than the weakest men be exempted? “Bloodthirsty” is a subjective evaluation which I doubt you can demonstrate is biological rather than cultural.

What would you do, test everyone who is drafted? How would you prevent people from trying to look weak so they don’t get drafted?

There are already physical tests for everyone who is drafted.

Unfortunately, even in a society where everyone is atheist, I highly doubt that “men will change”.

Yet, women are drafted in Israel. How’d that happen?

If you could change behavior, you could simply eliminate war in the first place.

If we couldn’t change behavior, we’d still own slaves and women wouldn’t be able to vote.

October 15, 2009 at 4:41 pm
(83) Alice says:

This is a global problem, the times keep changing and people just can’t keep up. Speaking from experience, though, unfortunately it is very common for girls to be taught to ‘cower in the corner’ when problems arise. Too many women take this approach for granted, which leads to problems on many levels.

October 22, 2009 at 7:47 am
(84) Barbara71 says:

This problem is one that has plagued other large industrialized cities for years. ,

December 5, 2009 at 11:38 am
(85) Tipoo says:

Alot of people seem to be under the impression that people who are drafted are immediately thrown into a combat roll, that is simply not true. In fact, i think it was said that 95% of military work is NOT combat. So there is plenty else women could do in the army. Besides, there would be obvious exceptions made for pregnant women/mothers in the age group for the draft.

You can’t cherry pick if you want to be considered equal.

All that said, being drafted would suck for everyone.

January 14, 2010 at 2:01 am
(86) Whatever says:

Austin, you need to come up with a better argument. Simply stating “So are men”, or “Women can too” over and over isn’t doing you any favors.

I am against drafting women because I honestly question what kind of nation willingly orders it’s women into the military? Isreal is simply a messed up nation. I have no idea about the Canadians, but virtually every other nation has dropped the idea. May God forgive the nation that sinks low enough to draft women…

January 14, 2010 at 6:27 am
(87) Austin Cline says:

Austin, you need to come up with a better argument. Simply stating “So are men”, or “Women can too” over and over isn’t doing you any favors.

Why is any different argument needed? If men suffer from the same problems as women, and women have the same abilities as men, that rebuts most to all of the objections being raised.

It only makes sense to complain that I “need a better argument” if what I have written fails to address/rebut the objections being raised to drafting women.

Moreover, I would say that in a democratic, free society the burden of proof lies first and foremost with those who are against equal treatment of all. In a democratic, free society the starting point must be equality. I notice that you offer nothing of the kind and absolutely no argument which suggests that drafting women is any worse than drafting men.

I am against drafting women because I honestly question what kind of nation willingly orders it’s women into the military?

The same kind of society that orders men into the military. Your question only makes sense if we presume that women are weaker and/or need to be protected in ways that men do not. This is not a premise I share and it’s one which must be demonstrated in order to justify discriminatory treatment.

May God forgive the nation that sinks low enough to draft women…

If there were any god that objected to treating women like fully equal human beings, it wouldn’t be a god whose forgiveness I’d want because it wouldn’t be a god which I could respect.

February 3, 2010 at 11:39 pm
(88) Babs says:

Austin,
I think you were too hard on “jr gore.”

Isn’t it possible that he really was in a coma in the past and suffered brain injuries and now has a difficult time expressing his thoughts?

You’re tone was nasty and it’s caused me to lose some of my respect for you.
- A Fellow Atheist

February 4, 2010 at 6:23 am
(89) Austin Cline says:

I think you were too hard on “jr gore.”

Feel free to show how.

Isn’t it possible that he really was in a coma in the past and suffered brain injuries and now has a difficult time expressing his thoughts?

Yes, but having trouble expressing one’s thoughts is a long way from considering basic punctuation to be a “waste of time.” That’s a case of a person who regards working to be understood a “waste of time.”

You’re tone was nasty

Feel free to show how.

and it’s caused me to lose some of my respect for you.

It’s amazing how often people seem to tie “respect” to “not insisting that others support outrageous, offensive, and bigoted claims.”

Just to be perfectly clear: Jr Gore had no trouble expressing his contempt for women, so he can be expected to express support for his contemptuous claims about women. And, if he cannot or will not support those claims, then he deserves contempt in return. At no point and in no way does a coma in one’s past constitute a “get out of jail free card” for expressing bigotry towards women any more than it would be for expressing bigotry towards Jews, blacks, or atheists.

August 5, 2010 at 7:57 pm
(90) marry jo lane says:

i don’t understand
how can people think about drafting women.
Look around do you see boys and girls at high school
on the same team, no the girls have a team and the boys have a team, If you put them on the same team
people would say that is not fair

September 5, 2010 at 8:32 pm
(91) peeznluv says:

No true Chritian believes in war to begin with. otherwise, you’d understandf one of god’s top comandments “thou shalt not kill”. War is a type of mass murder….nothing for our country to be proud of in all of American History. Men historically wnt’ to war due to (ow highly outdated) beliefs that all men are stronger than women. Here lies the problem with that false notion. #1, it takes virtually NO PHYSICAL STRENGTH to fight modern useless wars….with al the high tech gadgets out there. #2, many women today are as physically strong, if not stronger, than many men. This is scientifically proven, and not a devaluation of masculinity. Today’s food sources (Monsanto, GMO’s, growth hormones) injected into our food sources to produce bigger profits have esrogen mimicking hormones making boys testosterone lower. Boys and young men today break their bones much easier than girls/women. It takes much more emotional strength to fight these useless wars, and nobody can say men are stronger emotionally than women. The mere fact men were taught to hold their feelings in to be a man make them emotionally less strong, there are far more young men comitting suicide tha women. As long as the USA pklays cowards dance called war (and we will find reason to kill the cows for milk profits) women need to be 50% on the batttle field. As it stands, the DoD violates human rights against men. Are you bringing up wimpy girls? Don’t expect them to be able to vote, or get a job if you think they are so fragile they can’t fight a war that YOU BELIEVE IN. Any American that claps for a soldier but expects their daughters to be protected are hypocrites. How about the CO’s out there that are men? They should not be subjected to Selective Service any more than girls. You will be wiping your girls ass forever if you overprotect them like that. All humans are the same, they all bleed. the weakest men are the ones brought up to believe they need to be inhumanly “stronger” than a human without a penis. Time to get with the times people. there are as many six figure incomers that are women as men in the US, over 3million stay at home Dads with graducate degrees that once made moe than their wives or same. I know of at least one (had scare with cancer hance realized whats important in life).

September 5, 2010 at 8:47 pm
(92) peeznluv says:

It takes no physical strength to fight modern wars, with all the high tech gadgets out there, not to mention fact all the growth hormones and gMO’s in our food sources today are effecting boys and young men more than women (lowering testoserine, making bones more brittle and suceptible to breaking) READ! Google Monsanto, genetic engineering, lots of scientific evidence there. It takes more emtional strentgh, men not any more strong in that arena (if anything the opposite). Look at all the male sucicides out ther. time to update your beliefs and realize as long as USA fights its useless and ruthless wars, we need to at least do it with human equality. FALSE t WOMEN? We have discriminated against men for far too long. Are we bringing up WIMPYo say boys and girls sports teams are always separate. I see girls kicking boys ass out ther. And these are normal, strong, healthy little boys. The fact is, we have fol. lowed false axioms for decades upon decades in America. iF YOU EXPECT GIRLS TO VOTE, GET A JOB ETC, EXPECT THEM TO ACCEPT FULL EQUALITY. Unless of course, you are bringing up wimpy girls that will grow to be wimpy women. You will need to wipe their poopy ass until they are 30 if you don’t start to realize their is no reason to protect girls/women anymore than boys/men. i am a women, I am NOT a feminist. I am talking about the human rights of men here! The current selective service laws violate basic human rights against men.

January 11, 2011 at 11:39 pm
(93) hahaha no says:

Austin Cline, go read Flowers for Algernon. It’s not the same case, but you can see from the way he writes and his thoughts. And I find it halarious that your so quick to jump on someone who thinks women should not be drafted. And I am Female and don’t believe women should be drafted, for manny reasons. The number one reason though is that if a woman is captured she can be raped, and if raped she could become pregnant, and if pregnant, would they kill her? Would they kill the baby? And if they didn’t kill either of them, well what a horrid life that would be for the baby now wouldn’t it be? Think about it.

January 12, 2011 at 6:43 am
(94) Austin Cline says:

Austin Cline, go read Flowers for Algernon.

I have.

It’s not the same case,

It’s not even a little bit relevant.

And I find it halarious that your so quick to jump on someone who thinks women should not be drafted.

If you disagree with any of my arguments, then you are welcome to counter them with your own. Or is “jumping on” me the best you can manage?

And I am Female and don’t believe women should be drafted, for manny reasons.

Yet you don’t offer any good ones.

The number one reason though is that if a woman is captured she can be raped,

FYI, so can men.

and if raped she could become pregnant, and if pregnant, would they kill her? Would they kill the baby? And if they didn’t kill either of them, well what a horrid life that would be for the baby now wouldn’t it be? Think about it.

The fact that a female prisoner can become pregnant is the only difference from male prisoners. However, you don’t offer any reason why that should prevent women from being drafted or serving in the military at all (I’ll assume you know that this argument works against women serving in just about any capacity almost anywhere in the military, though you don’t mention it).

Yes, getting pregnant through rape is bad but frankly there are worse things that happen to people in war. The maimings and burnings are obvious examples, but I’d go further and argue that the psychological damage suffered by some veterans is likely far worse than the psychological damage that would occur from rape and subsequent pregnancy. Any women who volunteers for combat is volunteering for risks far greater than what you describe. Any man who is drafted for combat is forced into risks far greater than what you describe.

So the hypothetical risk you describe does not appear to be a good reason to not draft women. At most, it’s an argument against war so unless you’re prepared to make that argument, I don’t think you’ve adopted a consistent or principled position against violence and suffering. All I see is an attempt to treat women as more fragile than men – an attempt to “protect” women as if they couldn’t be trusted to handle themselves in physically, psychologically, and emotionally difficult conditions. That’s nothing more or less than misogyny, even when it comes from a woman.

February 2, 2011 at 9:34 pm
(95) David says:

In israel women are required to serve in the military just like men for 3 years do to the small population and huge number of enemies. People keep bringing up the family. The women are 17-21. Then they are done and move on with there lives. I think this is part of the reason israel is doing so well. The women become very smart strong responcible and intelligent. Women in the usa are always trying to prove somthing. They proved it the 40′s. I guess they are insecure or somthing. I think women should just like men be required to serve. Not because the men are not strong or willing, but because it shows in the United States of America. Men and women are equal. These religouis people Im sorry but until god comes down and says otherwise (he wont) its never been considered wrong, except to “societies standards” Women usually arnt sent to fight. There is 10 desk/safe jobs for every 1 combat role. ESPECIALLY in the navy. We need there help to get our men out in the fight. They can help make the clothing, load amunitions, repair vehicles, tanks,ships, reactors. There is millions of engineering jobs in the navy and Air Force. They dont have be knee deep in mud with ali bulala. They can help though

March 5, 2011 at 7:20 am
(96) belledenoir says:

Austin, you’re my new hero. I’ve been trying to convince people for years that compulsory draft means compulsory for ALL genders, including transexual/gendered. Some people just descend into gendered platitudes about “protection” and “caring”. How are men any less deserving of care and protection than women?

I generally consider myself to be reasonably pacifistic, but I think if my government (NZ) was in a situation where compulsory draft was a necessity, I’d like to think they’d have the decency to apply it to all, after all we were the first to give women the vote. Normal army criteria apply obviously.

As for some troll’s comments about women whinging and crying: there’s always going to be an element of people (men inc.), who, despite passing all the requirements, when they are in or approaching combat will make life hell for everyone else. Often these people do get sent home. Does it matter? If they just did it out of pure cowardice, then their punishment is living with themselves, knowing they abandoned their compatriots. I’m a women, and I would proudly defend my fellow country(wo)men.

I would like to know your theoretical opinion, if you will freely give it. Since women have an obvious advantage in avoiding the draft since they can get pregnant, what would be your thoughts overcoming this inequity?

April 20, 2011 at 5:28 pm
(97) Tiny Tim says:

No one has a right to tell me that I have to put my life on the line. Also I don’t have it in me mentally to go into combat. If I was in the military I would be doing something like cooking food and I would not be in danger.

May 12, 2011 at 5:25 pm
(98) openeyed American Woman says:

Why are we making any more of an issue of women going to war than men? How sexist! Women do not deserve to be protected from such violence any more than men It is 2011..with all the robotics warfare out there (designed with our wasted tax dollars rather than going into schools) It take virtually no physical power to fight our modern wars anyhow. Why should men be so discriminated against? To register for SS just to be able to vote or get financial aid for college! How can anyone not see that as a huge discrimination against men? Where is the “equality” in that? The question should more be, why is the US. continuing down the road of self destruction with engaging in war to begin with. My husband is the bravest man I’ve ever met. In 1973, when he was asked to register for SS (maybe it was even drafted, how horrible!) He was brave enough to write in CO status and say its against his strong morals otherwise. How BRAVE, to stand up against what we have been conditioned for so long to think is “Patriotic” or somehow a “man thing”. For those of you out there so quick to say women should be protected like specimens waiting in agar to be cultured while men should take the brunt of such discrimination….remember this: Men commit suicide more than women, women now overall are starting to make more money than men and men getting laid off more in economic downturn for fear of “discrimination against women”. Its high time we look at this closely. We cannot discriminate against gender anymore, and we can not discriminate against strong morals. If you as a parent or women believe in war, your daughters are far more appropriate to be targeted for war than our sons. Otherwise, what lack of human compassion you have. god Bless America

July 5, 2011 at 4:52 pm
(99) Angela says:

I’m in love with Austin Cline. What does the healthy minded individual truly desire, but equality of opportunity? The worst misogyny I have seen has come from women, but I have also seen very few men stand up with the intelligence, conviction and firimity of moral convictions as he has. It is not gender that defines one’s abilities or thoughts, but the individual themselves. Gender is a seasoning, not the dish itself.

July 29, 2011 at 10:42 am
(100) ZA says:

I believe it has more to do with mission accomplishment….
I say that becasue males generally are the “protector”, i believe that it sort seared into the psychey and it cultural realivent, men generally will help in women in need over another man in need. We are raised to care for and protect children and women, whether they want it our not. With these being said, shoud men and women fight side by side in the same unit and a women becomes injuried i do believe that the priorty will be to help the dying women and that could cause the team to fail their mission. In the same scenario a fellow male combanat injured would be none the less as upsetting but the focus on the mission would remain intact.

July 30, 2011 at 8:41 am
(101) Austin Cline says:

I say that becasue males generally are the “protector”, i believe that it sort seared into the psychey and it cultural realivent

Which means that it doesn’t have to be there and, to ensure equality for women, it can be changed.

With these being said, shoud men and women fight side by side in the same unit and a women becomes injuried i do believe that the priorty will be to help the dying women and that could cause the team to fail their mission

And do you have any evidence that this is what will happen – like, say, evidence from the experience of militaries where women do play combat roles? Or are you just making things up out of your own prejudices?

August 5, 2011 at 5:00 pm
(102) retiredwheezer says:

The Supreme Court in 1981 (Rostker vs. Goldberg) upheld the exclusion of women from the Selective Service Act. The court majority argued that Congress has the authority to put “needs of the military” ahead of “considerations of equality.”

August 5, 2011 at 11:20 pm
(103) retiredwheezer says:

Let me add to my previous comments above:

Voting in the majority on the Supreme Court were Rehnquist, Burger, Stewart, Blackman, Powell, and Stevens. Opposed were White, Marshall, and Brennan.

The majority felt compelled to write that this decision by Congress to exempt women “was not the accidental byproduct of a traditional way of thinking about women.”

August 9, 2011 at 1:14 pm
(104) Grandpa_In_The_East says:

Mark H. Creech asks is chivalry completely dead?

I hope so, it was never of any value. Politness and simple kindness is sufficient.

Nevertheless, if, between 1958 and 1967, I had been asked about women serving as regular sailors, Marines, soldiers, and airmen, I would have gone into cultural shock. But, that was a different era, back when the “Marine Corps builds Men.” Serving in the Armed Forces of the United States of America was a “rite of passage.” into male adulthood.

Times have change! And so have I. I see absolutely NO reason women could not serve the military in any capacity and that height should not be considered. Smallness can have its advantages in combat. Women can endure pain and keep their cool as well, on average, as men. And, women are far more likely to relate to their male compatriates as siblings.

I would like to know what members of today’s Armed forces think of my comment.

Grandpa

August 10, 2011 at 7:40 am
(105) Sally says:

I love to quote Stalin on the subject of women soldiers (oooh, do I smell the sulphurous miasma of HECK? :D )

Stalin believed that women make better soldiers than men because they are less prone to posturing. When a man gets in a fight, he is typically satisfied to see his opponent surrender or run away. War, of course, is not about scaring people, it is about killing them. Some, though not all, men will subconsciously fire over their enemy’s heads in the hopes of scaring them off. But women typically just get busy killing.

August 10, 2011 at 1:40 pm
(106) Grandpa_In_The_East says:

Sally,

In WWII that was discovered in Europe to be sometimes true.

The soldiers, Marines, and sailors in the Pacific didn’t have that option.

As a man, I believe there is something to be said about male “posturing.” As a kid, I remember that my anger disappeared once I had the upper hand in a confrontation.

I also have come to believe men, on average, have more compassion than women. I know I am in trouble for saying that, but it seems to me to be true. I came to this conclusion in the last quarter century as women took on more leadership possitions in civilian life.

Of course, I could be wrong. Maybe I just communicate better with men. Who knows.

Grandpa

January 20, 2013 at 11:02 am
(107) Scarlette says:

There’s an awful lot of hate on this website toward Christian ideals – but then again, what should one expect from an atheist based article? The feeling that many Christian men (and I’d like to put out that people that think this way aren’t necessarily Christian, Southern, Republican, or any other stereotype typically held by the rest of the world) is yes, rooted in the traditional roles of women as nurturers and men as protectors. YES, these roles have been loosened to the point where there are stay-at-home fathers and women in the military. The question is whether women should be ‘forced’ to join the army through drafting.

My answer, hell no. I am a woman. I am a strong woman, and an independent woman. But I am not cut out for war – the majority of girls raised on values like mascara application and the etiquette of not wearing white after Labor day are not cut out for war. Not to say there aren’t women who would flourish in a military barracks during wartime. That’s why it’s my personal belief that women who want to serve their country to the maximum, who know they can handle the strain of the military, and who apparently have a helluva lot more guts then me personally, should be allowed to register for the draft – but it should be optional.

‘Roles’ aside, isn’t it comforting to you women, no matter how uber-feminist you think you are, that there are men out there who are willing to go and fight, but do not want you to have die for them? You may say it’s old fashioned, medieval, ancient…whatever, the point is that chivalry is not fully dead in these men. Regardless of how strong a woman is, you can tell who’s mama taught them right by a man’s attitude on how he treats women. And if he doesn’t want said woman having to go out into the horrors of war to risk her life, I’d say his mama did a damn good job.

January 21, 2013 at 9:28 pm
(108) Austin Cline says:

There s an awful lot of hate on this website toward Christian ideals

Like?

but then again, what should one expect from an atheist based article?

If all you expect from atheists is hate, then you’re a bigot.

The feeling that many Christian men (and I d like to put out that people that think this way aren t necessarily Christian, Southern, Republican, or any other stereotype typically held by the rest of the world) is yes, rooted in the traditional roles of women as nurturers and men as protectors.

In other words, misogyny.

The question is whether women should be forced to join the army through drafting.

So, you don’t stop to question whether men should be drafted.

My answer, hell no. I am a woman. I am a strong woman, and an independent woman. But I am not cut out for war

So? Some men aren’t cut out for war, but you don’t have a problem with them being drafted.

Not to say there aren t women who would flourish in a military barracks during wartime. That s why it s my personal belief that women who want to serve their country to the maximum, who know they can handle the strain of the military, and who apparently have a helluva lot more guts then me personally, should be allowed to register for the draft but it should be optional.

But not optional for men, even though there are men who are cut out for war and men who aren’t.

You may say it s old fashioned, medieval, ancient whatever

How about just irrational, because you know that not all men are the same and not all women are the same, but you want to treat all men as if they were the same.

January 19, 2014 at 2:47 am
(109) John says:

Nice arguments, Austin. Nobody came up with a realistic counter argument to anything that you said (that I observed).

On the one hand, women are strong and independent and deserve all rights and opportunities that are offered to men. Because women can do anything men can do.

But on the other hand, being forced to go to war means you might get killed, so no thank you. Only men should be forced to fight to the death. (One of the few things that men can do that women are unable to do – how convenient.)

In return for this, men get more rights and opportunities at work than women – oh no wait not anymore.

In return for it men get the right to vote – oh no wait women get that as well.

In return for it men get…… look just shut up and go to war and die to protect the women, OK? People will think of you as a “real man,” that should be reward enough.

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