Just Try Jesus... Or Burn in Hell, Scum
Highboy of “Christ Matters: Christian Conservatism” offers a series of “Pros and Cons” for following Jesus. I found the link via Pooflingers, who already has an excellent analysis and I’d like to resist the temptation to merely be repetitive — so I’ll just focus on a couple of the more arrogant claims being made (a difficult choice, to be sure):
Pro 9: Following Jesus means being a better father, son, brother, friend, mother, sister, daughter...
Con 9: None, unless you don’t want people to love you.
It’s arrogant for people to think that being a Christian necessarily makes them a better person — especially given the fact that evidence is strongly against even a correlation between Christianity and better behavior. Even according to conservative Christians own standards of moral behavior, like for example marrying without also divorcing, not only are evangelical Christians not superior to others but they are in fact worse than most: divorce rates for atheists are lower than all other religious groups than orthodox Jews; evangelical Christians’ divorce rates are highest.
As Matt at Pooflingers says, “If you need Jesus to make you treat others, especially your children, the way they should be treated, the problem is deeper within you than you think.” Sadly, some people really do appear to need Jesus in order to treat others well. For some reason they seem to think that only the existence of their god justifies being a decent human being — I don’t know, though, if they were born sociopaths or if this was something they acquired over the course of their lives, perhaps through their religion itself.
Pro 10: You get to go to Heaven.
Con 10: None, unless you’d rather burn in Hell for all eternity.
Once again’s Matt’s reaction was my immediate one as well: God as an abusive spouse. Religions like Christianity are abusive insofar as they encourage people to feel inadequate, worthless, dependent, and deserving of harsh punishment. Such religions are abusive insofar as they teach people to accept the existence of a god which, if human, would have long ago been shut away in prison for all his immoral and violent behavior.
There is some discussion in the comments at Highboy’s blog about whether he is being serious or is simply lampooning the way some Christians seem to act. I’ve seen some very good satires of Christian blogs before and this is a satire it’s very good, but unfortunately Highboy appears to be completely genuine. Highboy really doesn’t see any errors in his logic — he really does think that the pros are 100% on the side of Jesus and that there aren’t any serious negatives to consider.
Religion & Religious Beliefs:
Comments
How else, but with a carrot and stick reward/punishment system, can someone enforce a master/slave system? Christianity is disgusting at its core.
I am posting this with the assumption that those reading have made their decisions regarding christianity on an educated basis and know the basics of how it all works.
I would have to disagree with the disgusting comment(note my name and you’ll see where I am coming from). Yet, I will cede and agree with some of the points made in the original post. The “Just Try Jesus” is a bad “marketing strategy”, He is not a condiment or some new fruity drink to be “tried”. Becoming a christian is not so flippant as that! On the “scum” part, I would like to make it clear that a real christian does not view non-christian (atheists, for example) as scum. I also agree that it is arrogant to assume Pro 9, but I must clarify and say that following Jesus should/could make you better in all of those roles. Whether or not you are already a great wife, the teachings of Christ on love-for example-can only serve to help you further understand love and even improve how you love others. Recommend reading 1 Corinthians 13:4-8 from the Amplified version of the Bible http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20corinthians%2013&version=45(Side note, christianity is not about getting the love back from others – Con 9 – but rather loving others irrelevant as to there behaviour/feeling towards you)
In my experience, and I believe mine to be the intended experience, I have not been made to feel “inadequate, worthless, dependent, and deserving of harsh punishment”, but rather of great worth (as far as I am concerned Christ died for me, that means I am pretty darn valuable to Him)loved, protected, nurtured, etc.
I do not have the time right now to go on, but would like to hear from both the individual who posted and the one who commented. In my circle of acquaintances, I do not often have the opportunity to speak with those who have different views and welcome the opportunity. On that note (forgive my ignorance), but what do atheists generally believe regarding how the universe began, how humans came to be, etc??
Thanks : )
Better than non-Christians? That would arrogant again.
It’s true that there are teachings in Christianity that might help a person be a better person, but there is nothing unique in Christianity in that regard. Many religions and philosophies have teachings that might help a person be a better person.
So, you don’t believe the orthodox teaching that as a human being, you are a sinner who is technically unworthy of God’s love; however, God is so loving and gracious that he loves you anyway and you should recognize just how wonderful that is?
There is no single atheist view on such things. Atheism isn’t a philosophy, ideology, religion, worldview, belief system, or anything like that. Atheism shouldn’t be compared directly to a religion like Christianity; instead, it should be compared to theism.
So, if you ask, what is “the” theist view on such things, you’ll find that you can’t answer that. Theists include Christians, Hindus, Wiccans, ancient Greeks, etc., all of which have/had very different opinions.
To be fair, you do ask what atheists generally believe, but I wanted to state the above in order to create a common starting point. Whether there is a “general” atheist view is debatable. Atheists today include some Buddhists, secular humanists, religious humanists, some Scientologists, some Jews, scientific materialists, objectivists, existentialists, and so forth. They all obviously have very different opinions. Sometimes, combinations of those labels might apply to the same person, too.
On the other hand, the sort of atheist you are likely to encounter on this site (and other atheist sites like it) tends towards being: scientific, materialist, secularist, humanist, and maybe a bit objectivist/libertarian. Buddhist-type atheists are a minority, but probably the largest minority among the other possibilities. I’m sure I’m forgetting some categories as well — my lists here aren’t meant to be exhaustive.
Atheists with a scientific, materialist, and secularist perspective will generally: accept that the Big Bang is the best explanation so far, though it’s obviously incomplete and if something better or more complete is produced, that will be accepted instead; accept evolutionary theory as the explanation for how humanity developed as well as for how the rest of life on this planet developed.
Of course, the same answers would be given by a significant percentage of Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, etc. There’s nothing about those answers which are uniquely atheistic or materialistic — all that’s required is an acceptance of the reliability of scientific methodology to provide accurate, testable explanations about our world.
Thanks for posting…
I would like to make it clear that a real christian does not view non-christian (atheists, for example) as scum.
This is called the True Scotsman fallacy. Even the author of Psalm 14 says that the atheist is a fool and is corrupt, so it’s not exactly an un-Biblical idea.
Whether or not you are already a great wife, the teachings of Christ on love-for example-can only serve to help you further understand love and even improve how you love others. Recommend reading 1 Corinthians 13:4-8 from the Amplified version of the Bible
To be honest, these are the teachings of Paul, not of Christ. And why in the world are you taking marital advice from a man who was not married and argued that no one should marry? (Recommend reading I Cor. 7:1-9)
You say that your self-worth has increased because God slaughtered an innocent man in order to satisfy his own exacting sense of justice. Quite frankly, I would be appalled if, say, George Bush tortured Billy Graham to death so that I don’t have to be tortured to death but can now have dinner at the White House and shake hands with the president himself. Even if Graham volunteered to be tortured to death on my behalf, that doesn’t exactly warm my heart towards George Bush. (Note: this is not a political comment, merely an analogy of a powerful ruler condemning a “good innocent man” to death on behalf of another.)
Likewise, even if you are comforted by the tenets of Christianity, this is no proof of their truth. Many children are comforted to know that Santa Claus won’t forget them on Christmas morning, but that doesn’t mean that Santa Claus is real, nor should we spare children from shedding their belief in Old Nick for fear of hurting their feelings.
But that’s just how I see it.
You know, since leaving Christianity, I find that I’m more loved, more lovable, have more genuine love from and for everyone around me, and finally love myself.
It’s actually quite the opposite, becoming a Christian makes you a worse person. There have been many saintly christians, yes, but they would have achieved more as humanists, that, or they were doing it out of delusion or selfishness, and not really good at all, and we worship false idols.
What the hell is forced altruism anyway? I wouldn’t trust someone only showing me kindness as long as the voices in his head tell him to. Who knows when they might tell him to stab me?
An atheist for decades (of Jewish origin), I recently went to my best friend’s mother’s funeral. he is a Christian. One minister spoke appropriately and movingly. The other told how the non-believers in the church would go to hell unless they accepted Christ. My wife looked at me and said, “Jeez!” and we almost started laughing. As one of the only white faces in the room, I felt the Rev was looking at right at us. Sad.
According to the Holy Scriptures there is only one voice that speaks the truth about Christianity, Jesus. All true followers (disciples) of Jesus speak the same thing he does. All other voices that proclaim to speak for Christianity are either another gospel, another Jesus, or another spirit. Jesus said in John 14:6, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If I may use the words of Adam Clarke commentary on this verse:
I am the Way – That leads so the Father: – the Truth that teaches the knowledge of God, and directs in the way: – the Life that animates all those who seek and serve him, and which is to be enjoyed eternally at the end of the way.
Christ is the Way:
1. By his doctrine, John_6:68.
2. By his example, Peter_2:21.
3. By his sacrifice, Heb_9:8, Heb_9:9.
4. By his Spirit, John_16:13.
He is the Truth:
1. In opposition to all false religions.
2. To the Mosaic law, which was only the shadow, not the truth or substance, of the good things which were to come. And
3. In respect to all the promises of God, 2Co_1:20.
He is the Life, both in grace and glory; the life that not only saves from death, but destroys it.
No man cometh unto the Father – By any other doctrine, by any other merit, or by any other intercession than mine.
Which brings me to my point and main comment: Who are “true Christians”? Are all who claim to be Christians or call themselves Christians, or answer to the name of Christians “truly” Christians? Lets look to the Holy Scriptures for this most important answer for the Word of God has the answer to every question.
The Word of God says: 2Timothy 3:16-17: All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
2Peter 1:20-21: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
The first mention of Christian in the scriptures is found in Acts 11:26; and when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
In the original Greek it is: Christianos; that is follower of Christ: a disciple (pupil).
In order to follow Jesus Christ in His Kingdom a person MUST be born-again. Jesus said except a man is born-again he cannot see the kingdom of God. Being born again is a supernatural act performed by the Spirit of God. This takes place when a person submits to the drawing of the Holy Spirit, repent (turn from sin) and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ confess it with there mouth believe it in their heart, begin to rely on, trust in and have faith in the Lord God from then on.
This born-again Christian now relies on the Holy Spirit to teach and guide him/her in all truth as they begin to renounce self-dependence, and selfish pursuits; they deny themselves for the
gospel sake. They actually imitate Christ, being transformed to his image in word and deeds. Jesus declared that those who do the will of His Father, which is in heaven, are His.
Mark 8:34: And when he had called the people unto Him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Luke 9:23: And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
Luke 14:27: And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
The “truly” born-again Christians follows Jesus who said: Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you. We live by the laws of God kingdom not this earthly kingdom. We love our enemy even to our own detriment even death. We love our brothers (these are those who do the will of the Father); we love our neighbors (who ever they may be). We bless them which persecute us, we bless and curse not, we recompense to no man evil for evil, we provide things honest in the sight of all men, we avenge not ourselves, but rather give place unto wrath, if our enemy hunger we feed him; if he thirst we give him drink, we overcome evil with good.
“True” Christians look for a city, which hath foundations, whose builder, and maker is God. Now being fully persuaded to be a doer of the word of God by literally doing what Jesus said do.
There are many that confess to be Christians throughout history and even down to the present day that engaged in bloody wars of conquest, intolerance, slavery, the Holocaust and cruel exploitation of the poor. The truth is they are not followers of the Jesus Christ of the Holy Scriptures. They are not” true” Christians they are hypocrites (pretenders) whom Jesus refers to in Matthew 7:21-23: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works?
This earthly kingdom is not ours the same as it was not Jesus when He walked this earth. Jesus was not concerned with the political issues of His days here on earth and we shouldn’t either. Our duty is to pray for those in authority regardless of who they are. The Sovereign God gives kingdoms to even the abase of men for His Sovereign purpose. The Holy scriptures declare that God is the origin of power, and the supreme Governor of the universe, he delegates authority to whomsoever he will; and though in many cases the governor himself may not be of God. We that are “truly” born-again are to take up our cross daily fulfill the great commission. Preach the gospel in order that some men would repent, believe and be saved from an eternal hellfire. Be a doer of the WORDS of Jesus looking for and awaiting the new heaven and new earth. As we go forth we always keep in mind that the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us, which are saved, it is the power of God. We preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
Beware of those who claim to be Christians but follow another Jesus, another spirit, and another gospel as the Apostle Paul was referring to in 2 Corinthians11: 4.
William Taylor Sr.
Bondservant of the Lord Jesus Christ,
http://www.actioncross.net