Pastor Seeks Elimination of Evolution
Saturday September 20, 2003
The teaching of evolution continues to be controversial in some parts of the nation - for far too many people, science is a threat to their religious beliefs. So, these people try as hard as possible to stop evolution from being taught or, if that isn't possible, they try to have their religious beliefs taught as well.
In Rogers, Arkansas, a pastor is working the first option, as NWA News reports:
Bob Dunning, pastor of Rocky Comfort Assembly of God church between Cave Springs and Gentry, asked the board to consider a policy change to allow students' exemptions from certain material -- specifically evolution. ... Dunning plans to tell the board that he considers humanism to be a religion that is based on the doctrine of evolution. Dunning plans to show the board past court decisions and other material to back up his belief, and he hopes the board will wait to consider his earlier request for a policy change.
Dunning is as ignorant of humanism as he is of evolution - which is no surprise, sadly, since it is rare to find a creationist who actually understands the science that they are rejecting. His proposal will fail because state law requires that evolution be taught, but he might file a lawsuit to challenge that.
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Comments
This is Chrissy, Bob’s grandaughter. I was appalled by the statement that he was planning on telling the board that humanism was a religion based on the doctrine of evolution, he was not (and if you don’t know the correct specifics, please don’t assume his intentions). By reading the humanist manfesto you will find their beliefs, or “intelligent evaluations”, of our existence. That’s where my grandfather found their stance on creation/evolution. And in response to a later statement in your article, I happen to attend a Bible school where MANY creationists understand the science that they reject. I know you’re biased toward creationists, as though it seems, but we also can be schooled and actually defend ourselves. Thank you.
That’s what the newspaper reported and I have no reason to dispute them.
That’s like saying that a person can understand physics but still reject the idea that objects at rest tend to remain at rest, or that a person understands geology but denies the age of the earth. You might understand what you are taught in school, but not the actual science at issue.
I’m sure you can be schooled to defend your religion, but that isn’t the same as understanding and accepting genuine science.
Someone has to be the ignorant one on this - sorry Austin its you. Just because you dont believe what Gods says in the bible - doesnt make it so. You can run but you cant hide.
Can you demonstrate how, or is making unsupported assertions the best you can manage?
True. For some reason, though, you believers consistently fail to show why anyone should bother believing what’s in the Bible.
I’m not hiding. You’ll notice that I am open about my identity, despite receiving threats from you Christians, and I don’t hesitate to support what I say, even though you Christians never return the favor.
Austin,
As always I admire your determination and drive putting up with these christian parrots. I applaud your reasonning and logical intellect. You are a very valuble credit to atheist all over the world. I hope you never stop defending freethought and stomping out superstition. I just know it is so hard to do, like hitting your head against a wall of stupidity!
Cindy
“The things you are liable to read in the Bible don’t make it necessarily so.”
Paul Robeson sang that so well.
I don’t want to sound too antagonistic, but if your schooling, which you claim is where,”We are schooled and can defend ourselves.” just concentrated on
literacy and writing then you, just maybe, would not only be able to express yourself more succinctly, but might even think a little clearer.
tomedgar@halenet.com.au
Just what has and is happening in Israel is proof of God. Besides the fact that there is NO WAY the Bible, which by the way took 1500 years to write by several different people, with the same theme could of ever happened without GOD!!!!
How so?
OK, prove it.
Oh my gosh!! Austin even in this day and age that would of been impossible if it were not for God!!! He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of men; yet they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end.”
Ecclesiastes 3: 11 (NIV)
You know the Bible says that before the second coming of the Lord knowledge would greatly increase. I suppose you have never thought about just what has happened to knowledge in the last 50 years??? I suppose you think that man is the reason for that??? NO GOD IS!!
Rom. 1:20 His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen . . . so that they are without excuse.
Evolution cannot be proven by scientific method. That is a fact. The existence of a supreme, life-inherent, life-giving Creator God, on the other hand, is provable beyond doubt to the open, unbiased mind. Trouble is, too few engage in the deliberate effort to prove it! Too many religionists are guilty of the same circular and subjective reasoning as evolutionists. Too many in both schools haven’t proven their beliefs.
http://www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?q=596.0.41.0
Can you open your mind? Can the existence of God be scientifically proved? You will probably not even read these but you really should.http://www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?page=book&q=1176.6.0.1
Prove it.
Knowledge is always increasing. So?
How about the 50 years before that? Or the 500 years before that. Knowledge is always increasing.
Prove it.
If it’s a fact, then you should be able to demonstrate how it is true.
Prove it.
You’ve claimed it can, so it’s your job to show how.
Yes it can be proved Austin and it takes LOVE!!!! SEEK HIM WITH LOVE HE WILL SHOW YOU THINGS YOU NEVER IMAGINED AND THAT WILL BE YOUR PROOF!!!!!!!Better yet YOU PROVE He does not exist. YOU CAN NOT!!! And about knowledge increasing the way it has. It NEVER increased the way it has in the last 50 years. The Bible also tells us about the SCOFFERS in the last days. WOW
Well, “love” isn’t what people usually use to scientifically prove something, but if that’s how you want to proceed go ahead. Construct your proof.
You’re the one making claims, so it’s your responsibility to prove them. It’s not my responsibility to prove them wreong.
So? You didn’t reference anything about a special rate of increase, just that knowledge would increase. Changing your claim when your claim is proven wrong or specious is not honest.
There are scoffers of Scientology, too.
Guess what? The fact that people don’t believe you is not a reason to think you are right.
I did not change my claim about knowledge. Jesus said in the last days knowledge would GREATLY INCREASE. That it has!! The Lord Jesus Christ IS COMING AGAIN and WHEN you see him you will have no choice but to believe now wont you. That is of course unless you have already died then you will not see him until judgement day.
How slippery is the world of religious thought! One would like to meet someone’s all powerful invisible friend, but all that offered to the curious skeptic is “SCOFFERS, WOW!!!”. I would bet that their is a guy at the head of this persons church that enjoys the same moral impunity as their middle eastern warlord god. True belivers dont reason as witout faith it is impossible to please god. Just shut up and drink the kool-aid.
By the way it is a proven fact that LIFE can come only from preexisting LIFE.
No fact of science stands more conclusively proved today. Life CANNOT come from dead matter. There is not one shred of truth from science to account for the presence of life upon the earth by any means other than a special creation by the great original first Cause — God — Who is life and the fountain source of all life! It is now absolutely certain, according to all that can be KNOWN from science — according to all that is rational — that it required A REAL CREATION to produce life from the not-living — organic from inorganic matter. Life Only FROM Life One cannot rationally deny the existence of my GOD, unless he can account for the origin of LIFE without a Creator who, Himself, is Life! The Creator, therefore, begins to be revealed, by science and by reason, as a LIVING God — a God in whom is LIFE, and who alone has imparted life to all that have it!
http://www.biblical-truth.com/articles/does_god_exist.php
And knowledge has been greatly increasing all through history. When I pointed this out, you suddenly trotted out the idea that knowledge has been increasing faster recently. Jesus isn’t quoted as saying that the rate of knowledge growth would increase dramatically in the “last days.”
Prove it.
Now you, sir — my doubting friend! If I show you my fine precision 23-jewel railroad watch and tell you that it was not made in a factory after all — in fact, it was not designed, planned, put together, by any watchmaker at all — that it just sort of HAPPENED — that the iron ores just brought themselves up out of the ground, refined themselves, formed and shaped themselves into the delicate little cogs and wheels and other pieces; the silicon just came of its own accord out of the earth and turned itself into the glass crystal; the gold case just refined itself, shaped itself; the cogs and wheels and scores of little parts just assembled themselves together in that case, wound themselves up, and started themselves to running and keeping almost perfect time — well, if I should try to tell you anything like that, you’d tell me I’m crazy or a fool, would you not?
Certainly! You know that the presence of that watch is RATIONAL AND POSITIVE PROOF of the existence of a watchmaker, or watchmakers, who thought it all out, planned it, formed it, shaped it, put it together, and started it running. Master Clock of The Universe But then you, Mr. Skeptic — you look up into the great vast sky at the MASTER CLOCK of the universe, which never misses a second — the perfect watch by which we must constantly set all our imperfect man-made watches — and you tell me, “That all just HAPPENED! There was no Great Watchmaker! No Master MIND thought out and planned that vast universe, brought it into being, set each star and planet in its own exact place, and started the myriad heavenly bodies coursing through space, each in its prescribed orbit, in its orderly precision. No, it just fashioned itself, put itself together, wound itself up, and started itself running. There was no Intelligence — no planning — NO CREATION — NO GOD!”
Do you say that to me?
If you can, I answer that I do not respect your intelligence. And the God I acknowledge replies to you, “The FOOL hath said in his heart, There is no God!” (Psalm 14:1; 53:1.)
If you can look about you, and observe how intelligently PLANNED and executed is everything in nature, and in plant and animal life - everything we see except the bungling, botching, polluting of God’s beautiful handiwork by the clumsy hand of God-ignoring-and-rejecting MAN — and then say you doubt the existence of an all-wise, all-knowing, all-powerful Creator GOD, then I do not have much faith either in your rational processes or your sincerity as a seeker of the TRUTH!
Austin Cline I will let The Lord prove it to you himself AND HE WILL!!!!
Renae, take me to your watchmaker. My children do not ignore me because I stay in their lives, speak with them at the end of the day, speak with their teachers. Even when they are angry with me, I reach out to them. I cannot be ignored because I love them and sacrifice myself for them. Again, I ask you to take me to your leader- but you cannot. Your watchmaker is quite easy to ignore, which would seem to indicate, based on his omnipotence, that he simply doesn’t care for us. His contibution to my eternal security? Flaying his first born son alive for me. He is quite ready to write us off like he did Jesus, perhaps even kill us off altogether, as he did in your biblical flood story. Altogether he would seem a rather disfunctional father, far from the solution you make him out to be.
OK, show the proof.
OK, prove it.
Prove it.
Watchmaker argument, already refuted.
Sorry, I don’t see any intelligent planning in nature. Please point to it.
So, you consider it intellectually honest to make claims then, when challenged to support them, just refuse to do so? I don’t. If you have no ability or intention to support your claims, you shouldn’t be here making them in the first place.
OK, show the proof.
OK, prove it.
Prove it.
Watchmaker argument, already refuted.
Sorry, I don’t see any intelligent planning in nature. Please point to it.
So, you consider it intellectually honest to make claims then, when challenged to support them, just refuse to do so? I don’t. If you have no ability or intention to support your claims, you shouldn’t be here making them in the first place.
Renae
PLEASE read something besides the bible. I know you have been thoroughly brainwashed by your religion, but you cannot answer scientific questions with fairy tales. Also, think about this: No one writing anything in the bible ever knew Jesus. In addition to that, there is not one factual historical reference to Jesus except in the bible. Why do you think that is if he was such an important and amazing person during his lifetime?
I certainly appreciate your right to believe whatever you want, but don’t try to debate issues of which you have no knowledge. Evolution does not explain creation. Also, it is your responsibility to prove the bible is true and your god exists, which you cannot do. “The Night Before Christmas” is a wonderful book, but we can hardly use it as proof that Santa Claus really does exist.
Religion should not try to explain science and science does not try to explain belief systems. Please do some scientific research about evolution and the other things you are trying to disprove with the bible.
By the way it is a proven fact that LIFE can come only from preexisting LIFE.
Let’s accept that as true for the sake of argument.
There is not one shred of truth from science to account for the presence of life upon the earth by any means other than a special creation by the great original first Cause — God — Who is life and the fountain source of all life!
God is life. OK. What preexisting life did God come from?
`I read the diatribe of semi literate rubbish form Rennae and thought. The childish arguments are in exactly the same terminology that I receive from a much better educated, and I may add, better written in English from an Arabian girl in Saudi Arabia.
To keep repeating the biblical tract terminology with
which she has been brainwashed really shouldn’t receive responses.
Trotting out the old “Watchmaker” and other St Thomas Aquinas theories only shows the limits of the intellect. This descent into the old
Everything must have a “Maker” Therefore God must exist fails completely Rennae when you get to. “Who made God.” God pre-existed? No can do, everything, according to you, must have a “Maker.”
Sorry Rennae you can’t have your cake and eat it.
Oh! By the way,it is. Would HAVE been. Not would of been.
tomedgar@halenet.com.au
My heart breaks for Renae and those like her. In her passionate parroting of prosyletizing propaganda (nice alliteration, huh?) I detect a person who is terrified of being wrong. It is as if she cannot even conceive of the possibility. I imagine that she shouts loud during weak points.
Joan I do not belong to any religion or go to any church I belong to Christ. And your wrong about there not being any proof about Jesus other then the Bible you should check into it before you claim something like that. As for the rest of you, Did you know that 4,000 prophecies in the Bible have already come true down to the last detail? That leaves about 1,000 left to be fulfilled – those are the ones regarding the last days before the return of Christ, which are being checked off the list right now.
If 4,000 out of 5,000 prophecies have already occurred exactly as the Bible predicted they would, you might want to pay attention to the rest.
are you kidding me renae?
4,000 / 5,000 prophecies? name 5. i didnt’ even know the bible had… 5,000 prophecies in it.
Geez Rennae.
Leonardo da Vinci not only foresaw man’s
flight he drew plans that were feasible, lacking only the materials, he also designed underwater suits, that have been proven workable. You sure HE wasn’t the second coming?
Jules Verne foretold, not only the submarine but the ones only just now submerging, that is with the ability to stay under for years. Is he the third coming?.
Both these prescient beings didn’t hide their prophecies in language that could be interpreted to foretell anything you would want it to fit but gave intricate detailed drawings. Does this mean they both had the inside running from a Deity?
I recall comics from the 1930s with Dick Tracy and his wrist watch two way radio. Not quite there yet, but close enough.
Guess the author could qualify for the fourth coming.
Get real Rennae. You refuse not only to answer, but even acknowledge, the questions put to you that refute your assertions, Who MADE GOD? Name the perfections on this earth. Don’t forget to include. The Earthquakes and Tsunamuis killing Babies, Believers,and animals. Recall the deformities in nature, animal and vegetable, not forgetting the crippled and dysfunctional from birth. Or is your God the same as all the thousands of others.
All the Credit but none of the Blame?
Before you answer that there is only one God. Refer to your “Bible” wherein “God” refers to Man’s attempts to be like US.
If he wasn’t speaking to his alter ego
To whom was he speaking.??
Why is it that nobody has seen, smelt, touched, a “God”.. except as figure of fevered imagination? You could also try to refute that the Bible said the world was flat and had corners. It is right in there.
There’s a few for you to ANSWER. But I know you won’t attempt because you can’t.
P.S Rennae From whence are you? My feelings are the boondooks. I hope so. Hate think you were from Canada.
tomedgar@halenet.com.au.
Who made God you ask? Nobody did!! He is eternal. He has always been there. He can do anything. Including producing life as we know it. The SADDEST thing about it is HE WILL SHOW YOU HE IS THERE IF YOU USE YOUR HEART (LOVE) TO SEEK HIM. That I can promise you with my whole heart!!!!!!!!!
Another thing. Its not hard for you to believe that life just happened just because. WHY THEN IS IT SO HARD FOR YOU TO BELIEVE THAT GOD JUST HAPPENED?????
Tom Edgar you show me where the Bible says the world is flat!! Job 38:14 compares the earth to a seal turning and leaving its impression of day and night in the sky. Job 26:7 tells us that God “hangs the earth on nothing.”
Tom this verse you are referring to: Rev 20:8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. It does not mean the earth is flat. It is just talking about all the nations of the earth.
The only proof of the non-existence of any gods is simply its non existence.where is him,her or it?how does he ,she or it look like?who of all these various gods that we humans have created is the right one?
i want any godly believers to prove to me that there is not a river in the middle of the sun.(no human has ever ventured around it and not in the nearest future)
prove to me that jesus was not gay.prove to me that muhamed and moses where not drug addicts who were constantly high.your various so-called holly books will never be any proof against my own beliefs on your various so-called prophets.if a claim has no evidence it is just the evidence that the claim itself is false.full stop…thats why in court the judge will dismiss any of such nonsence without evidence.
Rennae. Come in spinner.
Just go to to Jesus Christ and the “Sermon on the Mount.” The Devil shows “All the kingdoms of the world and their splendor” which is his for the asking.
If the mountain reached all the way to the moon you can’t see the whole world unless it is flat..
You can twist and turn but this is the exact words and can’t be interpreted to suit your own convoluted interpretation. Matthew 4/8
tomedgar@halenet.com.au
P S So you aren’t from Canada. What a relief
Further to what I posted before Renae.
You picked out ONE and one only of the items, even had that wrong.
You are the one who said everything MUST have a Creator then do exactly as I predicted earlier. Say that God didn’t need a creator. You can’t have it both ways.
You claimed the perfection of God’s creation then disregarded all the imperfections I listed.
You ignored all the others also, including the fact in the Bible of God referring to “Being like us” Showing he wasn’t the only God around.
Next you’ll be telling us the Ark and Flood was a fact when it obviously and provably couldn’t be.
You are right about the Bible being written over many years by many authors, and I would add, having many other works of fiction, fact and fable left out in the collation.
Unlike you Renae most Atheists have studied, and rejected religious beliefs. I doubt that you have seriously read the opposing views with an open mind. At the moment I am on my second reading, slowly, as it is so boring, the Koran.
I also doubt that you have even perused it. or the Hindu Gitas. Unless you have studied the alternatives you are not really qualified to comment.
Apart from myself. John V asked you to
enumerate five out of the five thousand Prophecies of which you claimed fulfillment. You ignored him also.
You make claims which you will not substantiate, neither will you respond to specific comments. Why would you expect intelligent, educated people to discard evidence based understandings for your arguments which are only based on Boondocks Bible tract terminology.
tomedgar@halenet.com.au
No Tom it is you twisting and turning scripture. How in the world does satan showing Jesus all the kingdoms of the world make the world flat???
Tom did you know thanks to satelite imagery they think they have located Noahs Ark on Mt Ararat in Turkey? http://arksearch.com/
Did you also know that they are also finding more and more evidence for a great flood? Here is one example.http://archives.cnn.com/2000/NATURE/09/13/great.flood.finds.ap/index.html
Where in the Bible does it say that God is like us? Doesnt it in fact say that we were made in Gods image? The Bible and the Koran are two different things. Satan is the God of this world. 2Cr 4:4 In whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. Also almost all of the religions of this world are religions of satans. God says this about true religion. Jam 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. Until you find a religion like this you have not found the real God.
Sorry typo. Should of read religions of satan not satans.
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Lets not stop there!! BIBLE AUTHORITY…can it be proven? http://www.thercg.org/books/bacibp.html?cid=g0068&s_kwcid=ContentNetwork|1019822821&gclid=CMKz36-h1pACFQyBhgodX1cROQ
Isaiah 55:6-7: “Seek the LORD while He may be found, call upon Him while He is near. Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the LORD, and He will have mercy on him; and to our God, for He will abundantly pardon.”
We would all do well to heed the warning of Thomas Jefferson, third president of the United States and author of the Declaration of Independence, when he wrote: “God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of people that these liberties are of the gift of God? . . . Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever”
Renae,
Posting under your own name copyrighted material written by someone else is both immoral and illegal. If you can’t demonstrate the truth of the Bible in your own words, why not just say so?
Can you cite a source for the quote you gave? If not, why do you believe it is genuine and not a fake?
Speaking of Jefferson, this is my favorite of his quotes:
“I have examined all of the known superstitions of the world and I do not find in our superstitions of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all founded on fables and mythology. Christianity has made one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites.”
Austin.
Renae is either a Boondocks Loony or a semi literate loony with the third possibility of someone hijacking the site to bog down any intelligent discussion.
Yes intelligence can come from people who have beliefs, but certainly not from someone with limited schooling such as Renae. Hate censorship but when the Jehovah’s come a calling I politely say G’day then close the door.With some people there is no way you can get an intelligent response.
Renae. You show an astonishing lack of knowledge of your own Bible. Do you only read tract?? Where does God say US?
Try Genesis 4 22. The Lord God said”The man has now become like one of US, knowing good from evil. Mein Gott in Himmel. In the first half dozen pages there are mistakes in abundance.
God tells Cain he will be safe from other people in the world. How come? Cain and Abel were the only ones on earth apart from their Mother and Father Adam and Eve. Unless of course God the profligate had been busy procreating all around the globe.
As for your fictitious “Ark: the satellite imagery has definitely been
proved terrestrially wrong.
You, without reading the Koran, make assertions of it. Read it. Much of the first part is only a re-writing of the Old Testament. As I said before. Study the other side. A fighter will never be a winner if he doesn’t know the tactics of his opponent.
I read your reference. Now I know why you don’t THINK.
tomedgar@halenet.co
Sure Austin here is my source. And since all of there literature is free for the asking I am sure it is not illegal to post what they say.http://www.gnmagazine.org/issues/gn53/bibletrue.htm
Tom it doesnt matter to me if you think I am an idiot. All that matters is what God thinks.
Renae … Once again you only answer or acknowledge tiny segments of the responses given. You have repeatedly ignored not only mine but other people when you are given FACTS. The last Igave you was Genesis 4 22. No response. Further you ignored the ability of Cain and Able to find other people in an unpopulated world. The list is interminable.
I apologise for my gross bad manners in suggesting you are mentally deficient.
Not my intention but I become incensed
when I am misinterpreted or find I am wasting my time. Partly it is my fault for not making allowances for the appalling American Education standards,
The U S A does rank an abysmal 17th in the world’s advanced countries.
It is a fact that countries with the lowest education levels are the ones with the highest religious affiliation. In the U S A, the States with the lowest standard of education levels are also the States with the highest concentration of “Christian Fundamentalists”.It is not a coincidence, just a fact.
Renae. I have pages of facts that can prove the Ark, as biblically depicted, an impossibility. Too much for this site but I’m willing to type it up for you directly. Not from anywhere but my own calculations and maritime experience.
Knowledge gained in well over eighty years which has included travel over much of the world.
I would be happier if you just answered those questions though. I would even be happier if you could prove US wrong.
After all that is what “Science.” is about. Proving or Disproving. Unlike Creation pseudo science which does one but never investigates the other.
tomedgar@halenet.com.au
This to me looks like a certain religious authority figure wants the U.S to adopt the ways of the U.K back in the Victorian era, when the Church of England sought as hard as possible to stifle scientific and medical progress and impede freethought by ensuring continued deference to authority by the scientific community for the sake of preserving its religious dogmas.
The Ten Commandments are supposed to be the moral foundation of Judaism/Christianity, correct? How about the commandment to keep the sabbath holy? There seems to be a rule about working on the sabbath and the penalty for breaking that rule is death. But, isn’t there a commandment that says that thou shalt not kill? How do you kill someone for working on the sabbath without killing them? Or is this some “god works in mysterious ways” line. I find this and many other biblical stories just as confusing. So how do millions of people get their moral values from this book?
Sincerely,
FMF
I am so disappointed. Rennae. Where are you?
Licking wounds under a rock in the Appalachians?
Did you check Genesis 4/22 and find I was right?? If you can’t see, that no matter how high the mountain on which Jesus and the Devil were residing you cannot see OVER the horizon of an asymmetrical spheroid, to see all the world’s countries, then I am afraid you will be unwilling to see truth when presented either.
tomedgar@halenet.com.au
Austin.
I tried to contact you but received a message instead from the server.
So I ask. Perry Marshall, on his site, claims to have DEFEATED 300 Scientist with irrefutable evidence based on DNA
being a code. Now as I understand codes they are, generally, not one offs, restricted to each and every individual, and are not actually building blocks.
I’m no Scientist, but on previous visits to P M’ site I found his writings childish to say the least but I would like to know what you thought.
tomedgar@halenet.com.au
Sorry Tom I havent come back here because Austin deletes the truth and God says it is useless to argue and not to do it. I do have one more verse for you though. “He sitteth upon the CIRCLE of the earth.” Isaiah 40:22.
Can’t you see Renae that if you only quote,
instead of answering, that your arguments are thereby proven baseless.
It is not the only place in the Bible that contradicts itself. You still ignore, because it suits your convenience, the items you are given verbatim from the Bible by myself and others then go off at a tangent on some other quotation that refutes the word of the Bible in another section. I imagine that you are one of those who say the Bible is faultless but won’t agree when the proofs are given you. You still haven’t answered ME. forget Austin. When I said Jesus, or any one else, cannot see around the other side of the horizon
of a sphere. You only stated that you couldn’t see why not. If I painted a spot on a football and pointed it away from you could you see the spot from the other side?
TomEdgar;dont waist your time with Ranae.as a biologist i wish to say that latest genetical studies have found that not all humans have the same biological set-up to understand complex issues .p.s its not an insult bcos i have brothers and friends who are intellectually lazy as well and to help we have to nuture that just as i was.we all attendent the same physics and maths classes for example back in school but there were always very few who without any effort blew our minds out.thats life unfortunately.Renae just hang on with your belief and dont venture into such forums,you might go crazy.no insulting intent p.s.just have to say things as they are.