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Austin Cline

America: Founded on a Covenant with God

By August 21, 2003

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Some people may be under the impression that America was founded for the purpose of freedom and liberty, but perhaps they are mistaken. Quite a few Christians sincerely believe that America was founded on a covenant with God and for no other purpose but to promote Christianity to the poor, godless, heathen people of the world. America's laws are based upon God's laws and from this stems every right and proper action that the American government should take.

At least, that's what Stephen Masburn at MTTU:

Egypt was a pagan nation that had never entered into covenant with Almighty God. America on the other hand is a nation that was created through a covenant with God in order to advance the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. From our Pilgrim Forefathers to the Founding Fathers of the War for Independence to our Constitutional Republic, the Law of God has always been our foundation upon which all law stems from. Through many dark times in our nation’s history our one guiding Light has been the Lord God and His Law.
It is time for the true Christians to shine forth the glorious light of Christ. We have waited too long and the price for standing for Jesus is always high but now you and I will each decide whether to pay it or suffer the consequences. God will no longer allow us to live off the freedom that others sacrificed everything to provide for us. It is we who chose to retreat into our pews when our Lord never left off leading the battle in the streets. ... Man however has decided to put its trust in federal courts rather than in God and the righteous decrees in His Law. A battle has been brewing.
On Thursday Judge Roy Moore held a press conference to declare his decision to obey his oath to God to uphold the Alabama State Constitution by invoking the favor of Almighty God despite a federal judge’s edict ordering him to cease and bow to him. A few hours later, America experienced the worst power outage in history.

Well, folks, there you have it - if you think that America has any business being a secular nation, think again. You are obligated to submit to God's law (as described and interpreted by people like Stephen Masburn, of course, not that he would admit to engaging in anything so crass as "interpretation"). If you don't and if you have any inclinations towards something like religious liberty, please submit your name and address to an organization like MTTU so that a representative can come and visit once the theocratic revolution occurs.

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Comments
Marsha(1)

Do you enjoy the freedom you have in the United states? Do you enjoy the right to choose your religion? Other countries choose your religion for you, and their religions do not give you freedom, their ways are not the ways of the United States, their religions do not consist of abiding the Almighty God in Heaven. Atheists turn their cheeks to Christ, denying him, and convincing others that God does not exist either, and look at the way the world has become, look at the way the US has become. I believe in Christ, i trust Christ, and I know I will have a place in Heaven, just as sure as i know the end times are upon us, I would not tempt Him nor anger Him. Believing in Christ gives us sinners a peace within, knowing when noone else can forgive us, their is ONE who promises He will, when we can no longer feel a worth of our selves, He finds us worthy of all, worthy enough to die for us, worthy enough to come back for us. This makes us a loving, caring, giving and forgiving people, and country, why would athiests or non believers attempt to take that peace from those who abide in a law that is just, that is kind, that loving, forgiving, and willing to help others, why would you want to take that away? So the world can be more like you? That would only prove truly to be HELL ON EARTH.

May 27, 2009 at 11:15 am

Do you enjoy the freedom you have in the United states?

Yes.

Do you enjoy the right to choose your religion?

I don’t have a religion.

Other countries choose your religion for you, and their religions do not give you freedom, their ways are not the ways of the United States, their religions do not consist of abiding the Almighty God in Heaven.

Lots of other countries don’t interfere with religious freedom. Most of them are also far more secular and less religious than the United States. Did you know that?

Atheists turn their cheeks to Christ, denying him, and convincing others that God does not exist either, and look at the way the world has become, look at the way the US has become.

Uh, much better?

I believe in Christ, i trust Christ, and I know I will have a place in Heaven, just as sure as i know the end times are upon us, I would not tempt Him nor anger Him.

Sounds like an abusive relationship.

Believing in Christ gives us sinners a peace within, knowing when noone else can forgive us, their is ONE who promises He will, when we can no longer feel a worth of our selves, He finds us worthy of all, worthy enough to die for us, worthy enough to come back for us.

Since I have peace without having to bother with all that, perhaps I’m in a better place than you.

This makes us a loving, caring, giving and forgiving people, and country, why would athiests or non believers attempt to take that peace from those who abide in a law that is just, that is kind, that loving, forgiving, and willing to help others, why would you want to take that away?

Your religion isn’t necessary for inner peace. What’s more, simply arguing against the validity of some ideology doesn’t qualify as “taking” anything away from people.

So the world can be more like you? That would only prove truly to be HELL ON EARTH.

Saudi Arabia is highly religious; Sweden is highly secular. Saudi Arabia probably has few atheists; Sweden has large numbers of atheists. Which would you consider better and which would you consider worse?

May 27, 2009 at 11:22 am
Shenonymous(3)

If there were a hell, it would “truly” be what we now have on Earth. Shall all the hells on Earth that exists today be listed: Not in any priority order, start with hunger in the world, disease in the world, oppression and violation of women in the world, mindless men gone to war, injustice in world, abuse of children in the world, these are just the biggies. It is true that more freedoms exist in the United States than any other country in the world. But these freedoms were won through pain and hardship. Humans in the United States have the right to choose not to practice a religion.

The metaphor of turning one’s cheek to Christ is backwards, Christ is reported first in Matthew 5:38-42 to have said when someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the left one also. This was in response to the lex talionis way of being violated. There is more to that passage and it is suggested one read it about the cloak and walking a mile for. This is presented again in Luke 6:27-31 as an edict to love your enemies, etc. There are a few ways to interpret this advice.

There is no convincing by atheists that God does not exist, there is only convincing by believers that God does exist which has yet to be done since the beginning of humankind! God(s) cannot be legislated. In the United States, at least, one is able to believe whatever is one’s fancy and fantasy. It sounds quite contradictory to speak of a “benevolent” Christ as being angered in any way at all! It is counterintuitive.

‘Peace within’ is knowing one is a moral person. Morals cannot be legislated either. But local morals can be agreed to while universal or ideal morals are abstracted from two or more local communities’ morals.

It is not world-wide agreed to that a personage called Jesus Christ died for humanity, nor is there any reason to believe such a person would return to re-save the world (if one believes this happened, wasn’t once enough? For a god?).

Loving, caring, giving, forgiving are only meaningful if those doing the loving, caring, giving, forgiving arrive at the conclusion to do them from ones’ own thinking that these are virtuous things for humans to do! Atheists do not take any of those virtues away from anyone. The world would be a more moral place if the people of the world would come to realize their own moral powers. Then and only then, allegorically speaking, could there conceivably be a HEAVEN ON EARTH!

May 29, 2009 at 3:01 pm
Paulito(4)

“Other countries choose your religion for you”

Some do,but I can list you plenty that don’t…will you give you a list if necessary.

“look at the way the US has become”

Depends whereabouts you are. I live in the South, and trust me on this, this is like living under the Taliban compared to most EU countries,Canada or Australia. Here they can barely cope with the concept of someone not being an Evangelical or Baptist, let alone Atheist or a different religion.

May 29, 2009 at 3:18 pm
Drew(5)

The American colonies were founded for several reasons, but the main one was as a means for expansion of English (originally) and then (after 1707) British power and wealth. The American nation was founded primarily because the people in those colonies had, after 150 years, evolved into two small camps: those who wanted a separate nation from Britain, and those who would fight to resist that idea. Contrary to American national mythology, most were not in either camp until pressed to choose sides, often with a gun pointed at them.

Shenonymous wrote:
“It is true that more freedoms exist in the United States than any other country in the world.”

No, that is not true. Leave the unsupportable, absolutist claims to the theists. Statements like this are why your country is held in contempt not only by those in the Third World who envy it, but also by those of us in the First World who do not. Global social indicator rankings demonstrate that the US doesn’t have much to offer in terms of positive lessons for anyone else; indeed more listening and less talking looks like the only hope for improvement. Paulito points out just one refutation of your claim: Europeans, Canadians, and Aus/NZers have far more freedom from religion than is available to many, maybe even most, Americans.

You are right to correct the “turn the other cheek” quote. Having recently read the Gospel of Matthew (critical research only, of course), I was surprised to learn this meant “encourage your assailant to finish the job” rather than “forgive and forget”, which is how people mis-apply it. Yet another example of religionists sanitising the message from their infallible holy books.

May 29, 2009 at 6:24 pm
AtheistGeophysicistBob(6)

Marsha (1): You know the end of times (more than one (1) time?) are upon us. You did not say that you “think”, you said “know”; please give me the evidence, but not a Bible verse, which would only mean that you “believe”. I quote Austin “Prove it.”

May 29, 2009 at 6:29 pm
kevin(7)

What a stupid a__!

May 29, 2009 at 6:41 pm
Atheist GeophysicistBob(8)

Marsha (1): Your comment seems to imply that you would prefer to live in a theocracy. The Christian Church once had absolute control of government and people’s lives in much/most of the civilized world. If you want to see HELL ON EARTH, go to http://www.exposingchristianity.com/Inquisition.html Please comment after reading.

May 29, 2009 at 7:57 pm
Shenonymous(9)

Drew, religious freedom, which is an absolute freedom in the USA, as well as freedom to not believe, even if there is pressure in the baptist and evangelistic south! One can always move without the worry of being an apostate and executed as they are in Islamist countries. It would take much too much space here to give reported incidences of such executions, so I suggest if interested to google “Islamist executions for apostasy” where you will find over 50,000 results! Yes, 50 thousand! Of course I did not check all of them, but I did about 10, which was enough for me. But I am interested in any other country you claim that has more than the constitutionally guaranteed freedoms Americans have. Would you please name these? Thank you ahead of time for your effort.

The people who founded the five New England (the Puritans) and Middle Colonies (Pennsylvania and Maryland) were seeking freedom to practice their own religion or to make money. You might check out the history of the Reformation in England.

May 29, 2009 at 8:04 pm
AtheistGeophysicistBob(10)

Marsha (1): If you would like an introduction to life in a theocracy, go to http://www.exposingchristianity.com/Inquisition.html

May 29, 2009 at 11:17 pm
Karleigh(11)

@Shenonymous: about your claim in post (3), why do you think that more freedoms exist in the US than in any other country? From what I can see you guys are really trapped and cornered by religious freaks and their propaganda etc. There is not so much of that here in Australia, it is not so shocking to come out as an atheist. You make some great points but I think you may have sensationalised just a bit?

May 30, 2009 at 1:00 am
Lloyd(12)

More freedoms in the US than anywhere else, are you kiddig?
I think you should check on that. I am happy to be an American citizen but I don’t delude myself into thinking I have more freedom than everyone else.

May 30, 2009 at 5:24 pm
AtheistGeophysicistBob(13)

Marsha (1): I responded to some of your comments. Since you are worthy of all, loving, caring, giving, and forgiving, I “believe” you are going to respond to my comments. If you do not, you will have shown me the value of “belief.”

May 30, 2009 at 6:51 pm
Shenonymous(14)

Not sure what you mean, Karleigh, by my having sensationalised my view. Would you please explain? I will try to explain myself further. While there are religious ‘freaks’ as you call them, in American society, Americans are still free to disregard them and pursue a religion-free life. If coercion takes place, there are laws that assist in relief and enforcement of those laws. It was not always safe in America to admit to a non-religious orientation. And I am not altogether certain there are not still those dangerous elements in this society that would resort to savagery to those who hold opposite beliefs. But that element can be found in any society, I dare say even yours.

Few politicians are willing to identify themselves as non-theists, and until recently such revelations would have been “political suicide” however California Representative Pete Stark’s 2007 decision to come out as the first openly non-theistic member of Congress. Several polls have shown that about 50 percent of Americans would not vote for a well-qualified atheist for president. A 2006 study found that 40% of respondents characterized atheists as a group that did “not at all agree with their own vision of American society”, and that 48% would not want their child to marry an atheist. And in 2008 a German church in North-Rhine Westphalia attempted to charge a fee to those wanting to leave that church. The court ruled that the fee was justified as a church tax! That was soooo Christian! The ruling has been appealed and is not yet resolved.

Christianity that immigrated to the New World, predominantly Protestant (by its very nature of being generated from protest to the Roman Catholic and Anglican Church of England, had built-in combative elements). Many fervent and self-considered pious protectively and insistently impose their religion on all others, much the way the Islamists are doing today. Fear-making was practiced. Propaganda for Christianity exists in contemporary America affecting every aspect of life (I can testify that in my professional career I have found in every public school classroom in which I have visited have bibles and other religious paraphernalia hanging about the rooms and student organizations overseen by teachers where church and state are explicitly and allegedly to be kept separate!). And Christianity still holds the power of government and business in its forceful grip. The evolution of free thinking individuals was slow in a newborn and growing nation, but it is sure according to latest data. Religion is dwindling and even though people identify as religious they do not actively practice it.

Even if on a national level that freedom is guaranteed, it is not always honored at local levels and through history people have been murdered, excoriated personally in public, and excommunicated from churches which in itself would not be a bad thing for atheists, but the ostracizing from other realms of life could be, loss of business, damaged property (cars, homes, bodily harm), etc. Nevertheless under the cloak of the law, we Americans do have these freedoms.

If you noticed, Lloyd, I did ask for anyone to bring to my attention those countries that have complete or more religious freedom than the US. It is encouraging if Australia is one of those places.

May 30, 2009 at 7:42 pm
Eric (4tunate1)(15)

For those of you who think the US has more freedom than anywhere else in the world, you should look at the actual facts.

The US federal government holds its gays and lesbians as second class citizens. It does not permit gays and lesbians to serve in the armed forces or to marry. Many other countries allow both.

The US still executes people for crimes even though most civilized countries do not have a death penalty and consider it a human rights violation.

The US has recently (in clear violation of international human rights laws) tortured people and held them captive without legal counsel or due process.

Should I go on?

June 1, 2009 at 4:08 pm
sammy(16)

Freedom? one part of freedom is knowing that you can go out into your community and say “I am an athiest” or “I am christian” without the fear of being harassed or suffering property damage for your ideas. My experience, along with many others in America prove that freedom in America is reserved for the majority (christians).

June 1, 2009 at 11:21 pm
Tom Edgar(17)

Shenonymkopus.

You attributed to the wrong person the bit about Australia.

For your enlightenment, and i have posted this before. Australia has at present a Prime Minister5 who his Anglican (Episcopalian). His deputy is of NO religion.
In the past we have had, admittedly all in the Labor Party, politicians and leaders of every denomination from Jew to Catholic. Our present Government has many members who are atheists or agnostics who took the affirmation
They sit alongside their religious counterparts. In the past this has been the norm and the atheists have been Prime Ministers and other leaders.

This month I, an atheist and well known as such in this mountain community of ten thousand people, will be judging a Country Women’s Association’s annual photographic competition, convened by an equally well known Christian Scientist, with the judging to be done in the Roman Catholic Church hall.

I actually taught, electively, photography to the leading Church of England Grammar School(eq..U S. High School) in the State capital for twelve years.I also coached their wrestling team.

I think that sums up the majority of Australian’s attitudes. Evangelical Fundamentalists excepted.

Bear in mind that the United Kingdom is actually populated by more atheists than Australia on a per centage basis. Blair was a notable exception and look at his record, as bad as G W B’s but then he is a Christian (of sorts) too.

Less than 40% of Australians attend places of religious worship regularly. I have NEVER seen any family in a restaurant actually praying before a meal as I have seen often in the U S. As for that rather ridiculous sight of football players going into a praying huddle they would be laughed off the ground here.

When, at the end of WW2 I decided that my intention of staying in Texas and the U S A was not such a good idea, philosophically speaking. Australia was the next best bet. Canada was too damned cold. Best decision I made in my life. Besides I found a nice Quaker Girl, spent 46 years happily with her.

June 2, 2009 at 4:46 am
Tom Edgar(18)

I apologise for the typos up there. Should have re read it twice, getting old and tired.

June 2, 2009 at 4:48 am
AtheistGeophysicistBob(19)

I assume Jesus has returned for Marsha (1). Otherwise, I can’t understand why such a worthy of all (?), loving, caring, giving, and forgiving lady has not answered any of my concerned responses to some of her comments.

June 2, 2009 at 10:12 am
Shenonymous(20)

I am only concerned with truth. I am glad to learn there is at least one enlightened country in the world. It is still largely an unpopulated continent/country. With about 21 million people it is quite a bit less dense than the 300 million in the USA. How the white citizenry immigrated to Australia might tell more about their prejudices. Gathered from a February 2009 article by reporter Stephen de Tarczynski, indigenous Australians continue to suffer from racial prejudice, while the “White Australia” policy was the dominant immigration policy of Australian governments until the 1970s. There was a time, and maybe that has disappeared but the article indicates it hasn’t, when the Abos were terribly discriminated against by the whites. It is good to know that Australia has non-believers in their politics. But I think they may not be as dispassionate as you advertise: http://www.galdu.org/web/index.php?odas=3713&giella1=eng
This link reports religious intolerance is not so minimal. Yes, the Evangelical Fundamentalists seems to be a bane no matter where they live. What is the situation with Islamists? From what I read, Islamophobia is not without precedence in Australia and antipathy for atheists there also does exist.

I think the mindset between the British and Americans are quite different regarding views of religion. Americans are much more co-dependent on their Christian god. I say co-dependent because their god is just as dependent on them as they are on him.

June 3, 2009 at 2:53 am
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